Drugs Legalization in Poor Countries

[AudibleLocket]

I live in Brazil.

Drug cartels have great power here, even inside the government. 

This would be reduced, and more money will be raised to society

But i can't see this working well in practice.

If our police, hospitals, schools doesn't work properly, how could it.

 

What do you guys think ?

 

[Leo Gura]

@AudibleLocket Spain decriminalized all drugs. Seems to work fine for them.

The problem in Brazil is massive corruption, lack of infrastructure, and low levels of Spiral development across the populace. Brazil has a lot of stage Red which makes progressive reforms very difficult.

Stage Red will behave criminally regardless of drugs being legal or illegal.

It's very easy to acquire drugs in Brazil if you want. So it's not like it is being stopped under current policy.

[Becks]

This is the same problem in my country (Trinidad). In my opinion, it needs to start with our politicians who must reform the laws and not participate in the corruption especially dealing with the gangs and drug cartels. This may not be happen within our generation. I believe we are still in the dark ages, so your options are to stay, or leave !

[Leo Gura]

@Shiva Seems like the government needs to actually sell the drugs directly to folks at cheap prices to avoid cartel trafficking.

[Shadowraix]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Shiva Seems like the government needs to actually sell the drugs directly to folks at cheap prices to avoid cartel trafficking.

I agree with this, or allow businesses to sell them like they do in say colorado. Prices go down, and regulations apply overall allowing users much safer access to the substances.

Still it makes me wonder why such substances are even illegal. Is it so pharmaceuticals can be pushed? Many psychedelic users think its because it opens your mind, but I doubt anybody in power knows what its like. Its a really mind boggling issue. Because they know sobriety is easy to manipulate?

Judging all drugs to be like heroin or cocaine? (Although I found cocaine to be meh)

[Leo Gura]

Most drugs are illegal because parents are terrified of their kids doing heroin, crack, cocaine, & meth. And to be fair, this is a legitimate concern. These drugs can be extremely destructive. I have an extended relative in Russia who's a life long heroin addict. He's spent a few years in prison and still does heroin. It's ruined his whole life and he's a huge drag on his family because he cannot maintain a job.

Psychedelics got lumped in with all that.

The issue of heroin, crack, cocaine, & meth is tricky. How should we regulate such drugs? Do we allow them to be sold at the pharmacy? Do we ban them, creating a black market? It's bad either way. Ideally we raise the quality of our society such that people never want to do those hard drugs. But that's going to take centuries of growth. In the meantime it will be a problem either way.

People who get hooked on hard drugs usually don't have much of a life and little hope for a good future. They lack a positive life purpose to work towards. Society needs to provide people with more opportunities for success.

One thing is clear though, psychedelics need to be legalized and actually put to use for helping those hooked on heroin, crack, cocaine, & meth. That's a no-brainer. It's proven to work.

[Becks]

The benefit to the decriminalization in poor countries is that the persons using drugs (and not actually selling) will not be criminalized and fill up the jails unnecessarily. Instead, law enforcement can focus more on those selling the bulk, which still loops back to the corrupt politicians and police who allow for the free flow of drugs in the black market.

So I think decriminalization can be the first step, however as said before, cartels will still continue to operate as usual as long as corrupt politicians and police support them. 

In my experience with observing our current politians and knowing our people, there is a very big problem of selfishness and ignorant behavior on both sides. Watching our politics on live television is like watching a reality drama TV show. I believe my generation and the younger generation is seeing this, and wants to make a change, because a lot of our lives are hurting. 

It will take generations to solve these problems. However, what if other, more developed countries like the US and Canada, expand their love and help these poorer countries. Because people here are not as educated, and need to be shown the way.

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Becks

[Gili Trawangan]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Spain decriminalized all drugs. Seems to work fine for them.

That was Portugal. 

[Gili Trawangan]

1 minute ago, Shiva said:

Spain also. But each region in Spain is slightly different. You can buy weed legally in Barcelona, for example, if you have a coffee shop membership and smoke it in the shop or at home.

Ok, I didn't know that. 

[Becks]

Having talked to a few people about this, the country as a collective will be against decriminalization of all drugs as of right now. However, it has given me the idea that if funds were spent on sourcing experts from around the world, and the public is educated via informative documentaries etc., then this may be able to change the mindsets of the people gradually. Like really get persons to educate us properly on health, drugs, life etc. A small mind shift change is needed to at least begin doing something about.

[Truthority]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The issue of heroin, crack, cocaine, & meth is tricky. How should we regulate such drugs? Do we allow them to be sold at the pharmacy? Do we ban them, creating a black market? It's bad either way. Ideally we raise the quality of our society such that people never want to do those hard drugs. But that's going to take centuries of growth. In the meantime it will be a problem either way.

People who get hooked on hard drugs usually don't have much of a life and little hope for a good future. They lack a positive life purpose to work towards. Society needs to provide people with more opportunities for success.

One thing is clear though, psychedelics need to be legalized and actually put to use for helping those hooked on heroin, crack, cocaine, & meth. That's a no-brainer. It's proven to work.

Been studying this quite a lot especially what is going on over there in your country. 

Currently reading Dreamland, what a book. I had no idea you guys have an opiate epidemic there. Or would you say that is exaggerated to say it's epidemic?

Chasing The Scream is also brilliant but looks at the drug thing on a more global scale with a killer narrative.
 

 

[AudibleLocket]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's very easy to acquire drugs in Brazil if you want. So it's not like it is being stopped under current policy.

True.

This is what 99% of the weed consumed here looks like.

 

 

That's a real problem, people are not interest in the quality.

 

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Shiva Seems like the government needs to actually sell the drugs directly to folks at cheap prices to avoid cartel trafficking.

 

So i cant see how government can sell at cheaper prices than this.

1Gram costs 0.50 Reais = 0,125 Dollars .

I think a good way to turn this around would be allowing people to plant their own weed at home.

 

 

 

 

 

[AudibleLocket]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@AudibleLocket Spain decriminalized all drugs. Seems to work fine for them.

We also have Uruguay, a less developed country than Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, USA ....

Not so sure about how things are going there.

[Shadowraix]

8 hours ago, Truthority said:

Currently reading Dreamland, what a book. I had no idea you guys have an opiate epidemic there. Or would you say that is exaggerated to say it's epidemic?

I think epidemic is accurate. Afaik doctors would hand out opiates like its candy for pain relief and a lot of people got addicted, plus the stronger street opiates then you have a massive problem. We still stigmatize drugs so the amount of recovery options is slim. 

@Leo Gura Yeah I see what you mean, the first response to things it seems is to ban it, but often the issue is much more nuanced than people realize.

But also I think politicians use it as a tool. afaik the war on drugs was to target the hippies and mexicans doing drugs because they were political opponents.

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

But also I think politicians use it as a tool. afaik the war on drugs was to target the hippies and mexicans doing drugs because they were political opponents.

Definitely, definitely. Low consciousness politicians always use the most base survival threats to win elections.

Case in point: Trump

That's how devirly works. Fear, division, and distraction is the name of the game.

[Apparition of Jack]

On 8/8/2019 at 4:54 PM, Leo Gura said:

Most drugs are illegal because parents are terrified of their kids doing heroin, crack, cocaine, & meth. And to be fair, this is a legitimate concern. These drugs can be extremely destructive. I have an extended relative in Russia who's a life long heroin addict. He's spent a few years in prison and still does heroin. It's ruined his whole life and he's a huge drag on his family because he cannot maintain a job.

Psychedelics got lumped in with all that.

The issue of heroin, crack, cocaine, & meth is tricky. How should we regulate such drugs? Do we allow them to be sold at the pharmacy? Do we ban them, creating a black market? It's bad either way. Ideally we raise the quality of our society such that people never want to do those hard drugs. But that's going to take centuries of growth. In the meantime it will be a problem either way.

People who get hooked on hard drugs usually don't have much of a life and little hope for a good future. They lack a positive life purpose to work towards. Society needs to provide people with more opportunities for success.

One thing is clear though, psychedelics need to be legalized and actually put to use for helping those hooked on heroin, crack, cocaine, & meth. That's a no-brainer. It's proven to work.

Don't forget that treating taking harsh drugs like meth and heroin as criminal offences rather than a health concern causes all sorts of major problems for society and keeps people addicted. Being locked up in prison for being a heroin junkie helps no one, and in fact just costs society resources. If rehab was free and widely available, and addicts were sent there rather than prison, a lot of the destructive potential of hard drugs would be mitigated.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Apparition of Jack

[Aeris]

On 08/08/2019 at 7:55 AM, Leo Gura said:

@Shiva Seems like the government needs to actually sell the drugs directly to folks at cheap prices to avoid cartel trafficking.

Leo président.

You tell me UI for all and I m a devoted

[TheAlchemist]

On 8.8.2019 at 9:54 AM, Leo Gura said:

 

The issue of heroin, crack, cocaine, & meth is tricky. How should we regulate such drugs? Do we allow them to be sold at the pharmacy? Do we ban them, creating a black market? It's bad either way. Ideally we raise the quality of our society such that people never want to do those hard drugs. But that's going to take centuries of growth. In the meantime it will be a problem either way.

 

@Leo Gura Maybe have(legal and government funded) injection sites where addicts are given clean needles and safe dosages of clean versions of the drug. They should be funded by the government and the addicts should be given job opportunities/rehabilitation and harm reduction guidance in those injection sites. Has worked quite well everywhere I know of where it's been tried

 

[Leo Gura]

@TheAlchemist That's probably best.

[outlandish]

8 hours ago, Shiva said:

I don't know why they banned shrooms, so it would be interesting if anybody here who knows more about this could share some background information.

I was of the impression that it's because Amsterdam locals were getting sick of the drug tourism in their city, so there was political support to ban them.

I remember mushrooms were legal in England around 2004, as long as they weren't processed. So you could buy fresh magic mushrooms in head shops. I think it is/was the same in Japan. Now England has it's draconian "Psychoactive Substances" bill, which if you know anything about, is quite insane.

On 8/7/2019 at 10:55 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Shiva Seems like the government needs to actually sell the drugs directly to folks at cheap prices to avoid cartel trafficking.

I think that's how it works in Portugal; if you're an addict you can register as one and then receive safe clean drugs from the government. It becomes treated as a medical issue rather than a criminal one. It seems to have been a big success in Portugal for helping with their previous drug addiction crisis, and they've become a model for the world. There are currently some similar pilot programs in Vancouver for opioid addicts.

It's a complex issue though, much more nuanced than simply decriminalizing drugs and giving them out to addicts. There has to be a whole medical infrastructure and attitude shift to accompany the change, and in Portugal they nailed all of that.