Higher taxation of the rich, backfires.

[Yog]

Got couple of things on mind about:
-Rich people/corps get taxed way higher thing.

Pros:
-They don't need all that money, thus the tax is fair.
-The money get distributed to the ones that need it. Thus elevate them.
-It prevents corruption and manipulation by the rich and powerful.
-Its ethical and humane to give your money to help.

Cons:
-They worked very hard for it and are probably the most talented and capable people on the planet.
-Thus you cripple the most capable, and strip them of motivation. ( lets put the resentment aside )
-Its unethical, wealth/reward is given to people that didn't work for any of it. Thus crippling them also.
-You are playing with serotonin, that's playing with fire.
-Pareto principle is a cosmic law, it works for ants,trees, beans, stars and galaxies, it works for wealth too.
-Jesus: The poor will be with us always.

The cons section can be triggering, maybe there is gold in there and not just libertarian and conservative misguided crap. ?

I feel it needs way more thinking and meta thinking.... way more sophisticated regulations are needed for sure....but big taxes for the rich feels like a thing that could backfire on so many levels.

What are your thoughts on this ?
Engage on this with shields down, no one is under attack. We are here on a peaceful exploration mission.

Pickard out.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Yog

[Leo Gura]

Taxing rich people doesn't cripple their motivation. This is a myth.

Money is an improper motivator in a conscious society. You would have our most creative people be prostitutes. This is an insult to turly creative people.

Also, don't assume wealthy people are the most creative people. Right now, the wealthiest people are often the best exploiters of society. Why should such exploitation be rewarded?

[RichardY]

@Yog A consumption tax, rather than an income tax. As resources are finite.

High Tax on gasoline. Plastic products. Electronics. Luxury goods. Chemicals. Entertainment retail.

Match tariffs in proportion to a nations GNP per capita. Similar GNP per capita, no Tariffs. Massive tariffs on poorer countries.

No taxes on farming produce, or the issuing of subsides.
No Property or Council tax. Pay as you go garbage collection barcodes on sacks or microchipped.
An inheritance tax.
No state school system.
National service scheme. Tree planting, fire fighting, military, police and social care.

[Yog]

I felt there is a slight bug in there.

Its the stage orange people that are the most driven, goal oriented, achieving and motivated, they are the ones that can easily turn in workaholics and earn those ridiculous millions/billions. It being a "self" oriented stage will take this whole tax-thing very personalty.

Improvising: Oh, those commies want to take all my hard earned work and give it to the lazy, such disrespect. Well I'll either just quit and not work, enjoy my life from the value taken away from all the other high achieving people, why give my life on this, if they f***k me in the a*s all the time. Or even better. I ll just play another game, I'll move everything to a country that doesn't have this BS and continue there.  (thus destabilize that even less developed region )

Those are the lines that a hard working orange person would get into mind. He would react harshly, find ways around it. They wont buy this society-helping talk. We are talking about a lot of T1 businesses here. And we want to be integral. Step by step, with all the people, forward.
And T1 is rather unconscious. We'll have to deal with that as we go towards a more conscious society.

I am all in for control and regulation of big corporations, no one wants a cyberpunk mega corp running around, devouring everything.
A lot of wealth is generated from exploitation, manipulation, inherited ect. We all know that and yes please, regulate that. Not all of them are creative in ethical ways. Not all are creative per se, a lot is inherited, or a byproduct of passive income . A lot of different forms of regulations are missing for sure. ... But there is still something fuzzy about this tax thing, Hard to put the finger on.

It all makes sense what you guys say, my doubts are: is it something that works, is it in the realm of something workable that can be sustained with minimal backfiring.

PS: I used to live in Denmark, been in Sweden also. They have progressive taxes there. Companies are not happy about it at all and yes they are starting to re-open their companies in different countries, or hire people from the third or the second world and work remotely, just to avoid the crippling taxes their government puts on them. That's for coding and game dev studios. Also a lot of green people in these companies, its not the typical capitalist atmosphere in there, I give you that.


It is a topic more difficult than it seems, that's for sure.
 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Yog

[Bodigger]

Corporation and small business taxes get passed down to the consumer......Always. 

Or....they move.

 

[Aeris]

3 hours ago, Yog said:

Wrong quote : quoting op

You're not rich and try to understand a mindset you live billions years from.

Even without monney some people act and some like to be view as 'someone' in the city.

There is no pareto bs.

Most son of rich people just got more environnement opportunity to grow.

The few that truly worked hard is prob dead.

I m sure my dad worked harder than Donald Trump and still he is very middle.

It ain't a fair meritocracy. That is pipe child dream.

Some work so hard and even smart and still they will never get any true reward for it. ( You surely increase your chance by working ). But the contrary is true.

You will find billions of hard worker who will never ne hugely rich.

And many lazy ass ( and more stupid ) still more rich than my dad.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Aeris

[Bodigger]

17 minutes ago, Aeris said:

I m sure my dad worked harder than Donald Trump and still he is very middle.

It ain't a fair meritocracy. That is pipe child dream.

Some work so hard and even smart and still they will never get any true reward for it. ( You surely increase your chance by working ). But the contrary is true.

You will find billions of hard worker who will never ne hugely rich.

And many lazy ass ( and more stupid ) still more rich than my dad.

So, are saying that if you work hard you should be rewarded?

If yes, rewarded in what....Money, Fame, Things, Stuff, or perhaps emotional pride?

[Aeris]

15 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

So, are saying that if you work hard you should be rewarded?

If yes, rewarded in what....Money, Fame, Things, Stuff, or perhaps emotional pride?

Social point and love 

[Inliytened1]

5 hours ago, Yog said:

I felt there is a slight bug in there.

Its the stage orange people that are the most driven, goal oriented, achieving and motivated, they are the ones that can easily turn in workaholics and earn those ridiculous millions/billions. It being a "self" oriented stage will take this whole tax-thing very personalty.

Improvising: Oh, those commies want to take all my hard earned work and give it to the lazy, such disrespect. Well I'll either just quit and not work, enjoy my life from the value taken away from all the other high achieving people, why give my life on this, if they f***k me in the a*s all the time. Or even better. I ll just play another game, I'll move everything to a country that doesn't have this BS and continue there.  (thus destabilize that even less developed region )

Those are the lines that a hard working orange person would get into mind. He would react harshly, find ways around it. They wont buy this society-helping talk. We are talking about a lot of T1 businesses here. And we want to be integral. Step by step, with all the people, forward.
And T1 is rather unconscious. We'll have to deal with that as we go towards a more conscious society.

I am all in for control and regulation of big corporations, no one wants a cyberpunk mega corp running around, devouring everything.
A lot of wealth is generated from exploitation, manipulation, inherited ect. We all know that and yes please, regulate that. Not all of them are creative in ethical ways. Not all are creative per se, a lot is inherited, or a byproduct of passive income . A lot of different forms of regulations are missing for sure. ... But there is still something fuzzy about this tax thing, Hard to put the finger on.

It all makes sense what you guys say, my doubts are: is it something that works, is it in the realm of something workable that can be sustained with minimal backfiring.

PS: I used to live in Denmark, been in Sweden also. They have progressive taxes there. Companies are not happy about it at all and yes they are starting to re-open their companies in different countries, or hire people from the third or the second world and work remotely, just to avoid the crippling taxes their government puts on them. That's for coding and game dev studios. Also a lot of green people in these companies, its not the typical capitalist atmosphere in there, I give you that.


It is a topic more difficult than it seems, that's for sure.
 

It comes down to conscious levels.  Stage Orange is not gonna be conscious of everything and that's precisely why they are stage Orange.

The myth here is that everyone who needs government help is lazy.  Yes some are, but some have disabilities..even if its a small percentage it's still there - and the conscious being cannot ignore them or hand wave them off as "oh it's just a small percentage of society.

When you encounter mysticism and Oneness it propels you past Orange because you realize you are all Beings.

Not only that with multiple awakenings you will have experienced Divine Love and this will instill deep love and compassion for all Beings into you.  

Then...paying more taxes as the wealthy is OK as long as you know that your tax paid dollars are going to the right places and not corruption.   Plus it will discourage people exploitng the system and push them towards more conscious work.   What also helps with that is advanced education of spirituality and consciousness education.   This is where our tax dollars could go as one example.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Inliytened1

[universe]

On 6.8.2019 at 2:54 PM, Yog said:

Cons:
-They worked very hard for it and are probably the most talented and capable people on the planet.

And that makes them... what? I mean, do you think capable people deserve more money? We are not talking about jimmy is a good musician and worked hard his entire life, so give him 2 cars. While todd who is a bit dumb only gets to drive 1 car. We are talking about 10.000 vs 0 cars.

Also in every country I know higher tax rates only apply to the specific amount over x. So its not like rich people get taxed higher. Its just that jimmy (60k/year) pays 40% on his 20000$/y, while both jimmy and anna  (40k/year) pay 35% on their equal income of 20000$ and 30% on their other 20000$ they earn.

[Shadowraix]

Before we get into taxing them more lets focus on them actually getting taxed and them not getting away with tax evasion through safe havens.

Companies use every trick in the book to avoid taxes: https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2019/02/16/amazon-paid-no-federal-taxes-billion-profits-last-year/

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/companies-paying-zero-taxes-trump-law-155944124.html

Edited August 9, 2019 by Shadowraix

[SFRL]

On 8/7/2019 at 2:08 PM, Shiva said:

If you already earned a billion dollars and you bought all the sports cars, yachts and houses you always wanted, how motivated would you be to earn another million?

I think there comes a point where money no longer motivates you that much anymore.

Probably very motivated. People who earn a billion dollars are very motivated to always make more money anyways. That's why they are billionaires. 

[Shadowraix]

42 minutes ago, SFRL said:

Probably very motivated. People who earn a billion dollars are very motivated to always make more money anyways. That's why they are billionaires. 

Maximizing survival is a big motivator for us

[Aeris]

3 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

Maximizing survival is a big motivator for us

Maybe the reason I m living with few monney.

What motivate me in monney is everything that will makes my life cooler. ( Fun )

The idea of having kid in this World is sick.

Monney doesn't assure survival. It can help at best. But that's précisely a deluded stage orange thinking.

Monney power of survival increased. This thought is a powerful delusion.

There is truth in it but you still can die for many reasons.

Apocalypse zomby. Powerful virus. Private jet crash / boat stormed.

The list is Infinite as your possibility of dying.

When you swim with shark you increase your chance of being hunted.

Différent way of dying.

Someone who pursue monney all his life will never leave the thought of it saving him. That would rape is meaning.

Unless you do monney as breathing without even trying to make it.

Like a Johnny Depp rich kind of life. ( Not the best but not fixed on 'keeping monney for survival' ) that's why Johnny Depp is T2

Edited August 9, 2019 by Aeris

[Dan502]

How to tackle the obesity of wealth.

We're not here to tax abundance, although we may raise taxes. It's about regulating and inspiring the wealthy to change their relationship to money and get fitter.

A healthy business doesn't even want to sit around and get richer. It wants to create and compete.

The government is responsible for creating the environment in which businesses will operate healthily.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Dan502

[Shadowraix]

1 hour ago, Aeris said:

Maybe the reason I m living with few monney.

What motivate me in monney is everything that will makes my life cooler. ( Fun )

The idea of having kid in this World is sick.

Monney doesn't assure survival. It can help at best. But that's précisely a deluded stage orange thinking.

Monney power of survival increased. This thought is a powerful delusion.

There is truth in it but you still can die for many reasons.

Apocalypse zomby. Powerful virus. Private jet crash / boat stormed.

The list is Infinite as your possibility of dying.

When you swim with shark you increase your chance of being hunted.

Différent way of dying.

Someone who pursue monney all his life will never leave the thought of it saving him. That would rape is meaning.

Unless you do monney as breathing without even trying to make it.

Like a Johnny Depp rich kind of life. ( Not the best but not fixed on 'keeping monney for survival' ) that's why Johnny Depp is T2

Belief plays a good role here too. If you believe it'll maximize your survival. But when it encourages you to enter discomfort thats not good for ego either. Its a balancing game in the mind I think

[SFRL]

6 hours ago, Shiva said:

I don't think so. At a certain point money people care less about making more money, instead they now start craving power and influence. Why do you think Trump run for president in the first place? He could easily retire on an island if he wanted to or start a new business to make another million. But he didn't.

Trump becoming president will make him and his clan a lot of money, now and in the long run. 

Also in this world money and power/status can pretty much be traded in one on one for each other. Especially when a person reaches the age of around 30s. 

[Quicksilver]

I think we should focus less on who to tax and more on who does the redistribution... 

[Bodigger]

12 minutes ago, Quicksilver said:

I think we should focus less on who to tax and more on who does the redistribution... 

Please explain redistribution.

Is this the Robin Hood theory?

[RichardY]