Tribal Communities.. Stage purple..?

[laurel]

Just listened to Spiral dynamics stage green. Leo said that most tribal communities are in stage purple. What about Amazon tribes that consume ayahuasca on a weekly basis, and African tribes using Iboga frequently? 

[Leo Gura]

Yes, they are mostly Purple in their cognitive development.

You have to be nuanced here and distinguish various developmental lines: moral, interpersonal, political, cognitive, spiritual, and so forth. While their spiritual line could be advanced, their other lines can be very low.

Those tribes are not all rainbows and butterflies. They will rape you and boil your skull for dinner if you are from the wrong tribe. Tribal warfare is a notorious problem.

[CreamCat]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They will rape you and boil your skull for dinner if you are from the wrong tribe.

Why would you boil a human skull for dinner? I hate eating human skull. That's worse than monkey brain which some chinese people eat.

If you are spiritually advanced, why would you rape and eat a human?

This reminds me of hannibal lecter.

It seems that they belong in prison.

Edited August 6, 2019 by CreamCat

[Yog]

I'll make an interesting parallel here. Rather simplified.

-Beige/Purple > Unity trough unconsciousness.
-Yellow/Turquoise > Unity trough consciousness.

Just the same way, the root chakra leads to oneness and so does the crown, but in opposite ways.

You may notice that these tribes behave as there is connection between things, the wind is alive , so is the rock, so is the sky, so is the sun, and we live together with them. They are quite glued to their surroundings, to the unconscious forces as well, both personal and collective. They are unified trough unconsciousness.

Witch makes them quite natural, And nature is cruel, so freaking cruel. It is not what we, from our safe homes like to romanticize about, and give the story of the human pestilence vs the good nature. A night in the woods alone and naked, and you'll know it, the ambulance will know it. In this way, these tribal people are also natural. They wont blink an eye for cutting your head off and they will love it, smile while doing it, feel good and fulfilled, grateful. Children will happily run around trying to collect some of the blood, while it squirts .They will do all sorts of natural things like rape, kill for dominance, deceive, steal, eat babies, cannibalize, they will also take care of their children, care for the tribe, bring water, hunt for food, build shelter. Its all natural.

I wont confuse all forms of unity with spiritual development.
I would be very careful. Its a weird thing to warp the mind around it.

Ken Wilber explains this good:

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Yog

[Truthority]

transcend the tribe stuff

go individual bro

We left africa for a reason although some still love sports and elections

[laurel]

@Yog Thanks for sending the video. And  @Leo Gura  Thanks for the response. 

I'm not sure what this all means, In order to understand this better, I think I would have to live with a variety of tribes. But then again, it would just leave me with more questions. I spent time with members of a Columbian tribe, and my brother stayed with an African tribe for 2 weeks. Both were kind, accepting, and welcoming. Even if we had not been respectful of their culture and traditions, I can't imagine they would have caused us any harm. They value human life the same way they value the earth. I can understand the part about them being more animalistic, but the particular tribes I am thinking of would not "boil your skull." The video that  @Yog sent said that they have not fully developed an ego, so they have not had to go through a transcending process. This part makes sense to me because they have a deep understanding of the spiritual world and they don't seem to act with a sense of ego. It is possible that their ego is active for self- preservation, but not dominance. Although, they did indulge in alcohol and could be overly sexual, so that leaves me uncertain.

If these tribes are able to live in harmony with one another, wouldn't that mean their political, interpersonal and cognitive lines are developed as well as their spiritual? 

LOL. Why is this so fun to think about?  

[Leo Gura]

@laurel Be careful romanticizing tribes. They are primitive and they will start tribe warfare.

You want a better understanding of stage Purple, look at Africa and Iraq. That's tribal warfare.

[laurel]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@laurel Be careful romanticizing tribes. They are primitive and they will start tribe warfare.

You want a better understanding of stage Purple, look at Africa and Iraq. That's tribal warfare.

What do you think is the likelihood for some tribes to be more advanced than purple? 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, laurel said:

What do you think is the likelihood for some tribes to be more advanced than purple? 

Cognitively and politically they are not.

You have to take into account the scaling problem. It's easy to live in harmony with nature when you got 500 people. Now see how they behave as 500 million people. All hell breaks loose.

[laurel]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Cognitively and politically they are not.

You have to tale into account the scaling problem. It's easy to live in harmony with nature when you got 500 people. Now see how they behave as 500 million people. All hell breaks loose.

That's a valid point. Would you say that the only way for a society of 500 million people to live in total harmony is if everyone is stage yellow and beyond?

[hamedsf]

It's not simple you'd say just because I saw a tribal community were doing psychedelics, then they're not purple.

the spiral dynamics is a comprehensive approach. not only it considers the consciousness level but also lifestyles, culture, the place of living, the interactions and all stuff together 

Edited August 6, 2019 by hamedsf

[hamedsf]

all tribes are not the same, maybe one is more higher than other in spiral dynamics.

bunch of them are welcoming if you happen to go and live with them.

bunch of tribes are cannibalistic and they will chop your head off if they happen to see you around them (a different and modern person) 

[Leo Gura]

41 minutes ago, laurel said:

That's a valid point. Would you say that the only way for a society of 500 million people to live in total harmony is if everyone is stage yellow and beyond?

I doubt total harmony is possible. Total harmony is death. There will always be stuggle in life. That's the nature of survival. It's just a question of how much harmony and complexity a particular stage of cognitive development can sustain.

China is mosty stage Blue and they have over 1 billion people. Of course they are an ecological disaster, but they do live in some degree of harmony as a society.

[Nivsch]

Great harmony is also boring after a while. Even though it sounds like heaven. 

It paradoxical for the mind.

Thats why Coral will come, I think.

But I am not pretending to know what it is because i dont have a clue.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Nivsch

[laurel]

 

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I doubt total harmony is possible. Total harmony is death. 

 

You doubt or you know?

[laurel]

On 8/6/2019 at 2:19 PM, hamedsf said:

all tribes are not the same, maybe one is more higher than other in spiral dynamics.

I think Leo is suggesting that all primitive tribes are low in cognitive development and stage purple. Which means there wouldn’t be some  tribes that just happen to be higher on the spiral. Because if they were higher, they wouldn’t be stuck in only their rituals and traditions. 

This is just me hypothesizing. What are your thoughts? 

 

What is an example of a primitive tribe higher than purple? @Leo Gura @hamedsf

[Moreira]

I doubt that the entire tribe drink ayahuasca daily. its reserved to shamans to interpret what they see in the other side, predict whats better for their community...

[laurel]

59 minutes ago, Moreira said:

I doubt that the entire tribe drink ayahuasca daily. its reserved to shamans to interpret what they see in the other side, predict whats better for their community...

Most people in the community drink a couple times a week. Unless you are a women on your cycle, then you’re not even allowed to be around the medicine. 

[Leo Gura]

Of course taking psychedelics on a weekly basis will make one spiritually developed. But there are other aspects of development which remain crude.

[How to be wise]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course taking psychedelics on a weekly basis will make one spiritually developed. But there are other aspects of development which remain crude.

Many yogis have achieved a state of unconditional love in the past. What stage of development is that, on Spiral Dynamics?