How did the ancient masters uncover these secrets?

[tatsumaru]

How did the ancient masters uncover secrets such as yoga, chakras, qigong, taiji, kundalini, feng shui, vaastu etc? It doesn't seem plausible to assume that all these were a product of trial and error or some sort of scientific method... It almost seems as if they "downloaded" it from the source somehow...

Also it  seems to me that our current society seems to have forgotten how to connect to this source and is now relies on this scientific method like a blind man in a cave who needs to feel his way out of the darkness by touching every little rock and trying every possible combination of directions.

[Aakash]

@tatsumaru their omnisciency was at a lower complexity than ours. In other word. God at that time could more easily congnise itself than it did now. Due to the complexity exceeding the belief in god. 

Stage orange and stage green and yellow all done believe in god. But purple, red and blue would have at that time. 

So in its easiest sense to answer: as nitzchze said we’ve killed god which was part of the cycle anyway. 

“Why” is not only a cognisant questioning as verbal as it is nowadays. You ask why with your being and they asked why with their awareness and must have come to the answer. By entering deep meditation with their awareness. 

But they wouldn’t have gotten rid of their ego or human -ness until buddha came along and that’s why he played a significant part. But I’m not sure about the timeline BC. This is only speculation back in time. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Aakash

[Cocolove]

I've always wondered that, and in a sense I guess we can only speculate. I've kind of thought that their minds had a lot of free time you feel. Maybe psychedelics revealed it to them.

[Truth Addict]

I personally believe that all spiritual techniques aim to exhaust the mind and make it to submit and eventually dissolve. It doesn't matter what the technique is.

No technique can show you the truth. The mind/ego is the only obstacle.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Aakash]

Realistically all they needed was a psychadelic experience to then reverse engineer their own consciousness. That’s how siddhis came about in shamanism but it was very dogmatic and absolutist. 

[MuddyBoots]

The ancients had plenty of time to create these perspectives, and don't forget we are creating new ones at the moment too. The New Age movement, for instance, comes up with new ideas (as well as rehashing old ones) - our present culture is keen on novelty over tradition so why not?

[seeking_brilliance]

1 hour ago, MuddyBoots said:

The ancients had plenty of time to create these perspectives, and don't forget we are creating new ones at the moment too. The New Age movement, for instance, comes up with new ideas (as well as rehashing old ones) - our present culture is keen on novelty over tradition so why not?

especially with the internet as the perfect way to spread these ideas, we really are witnessing a new age in spirituality. (oops I didn't even mean to do that lol) 

[Schahin]

Dont forget, psychoactive mushrooms grow all over the world and back then peope were more connected to nature and life happened more in nature too so finding a mushroom that made you find the nature behind reality probably was very common, as there are mushroom paintings and statues in many places around the world. 

In the amazon the indigenous people say that the forest showed them the way to combining the plants for the ayahuasca brew. 

And psychedelic cactus was probably  eaten by desert habitants that were thirsty and wanted the water out of the cactus

[pluto]

The same way we are uncovering them now, tune into your true nature, tune into source

 

[tatsumaru]

14 hours ago, Aakash said:

@tatsumaru their omnisciency was at a lower complexity than ours. In other word. God at that time could more easily congnise itself than it did now. Due to the complexity exceeding the belief in god. 

Stage orange and stage green and yellow all done believe in god. But purple, red and blue would have at that time. 

So in its easiest sense to answer: as nitzchze said we’ve killed god which was part of the cycle anyway. 

“Why” is not only a cognisant questioning as verbal as it is nowadays. You ask why with your being and they asked why with their awareness and must have come to the answer. By entering deep meditation with their awareness. 

But they wouldn’t have gotten rid of their ego or human -ness until buddha came along and that’s why he played a significant part. But I’m not sure about the timeline BC. This is only speculation back in time. 

Belief in god = religion, this is stage blue. Spirituality has nothing to do with beliefs and belief systems. All the buddhas have repeated this ad nauseam. Sadhguru also dismissed this notion of belief multiple times.

 

 

4 hours ago, pluto said:

The same way we are uncovering them now, tune into your true nature, tune into source

 

I am not aware of anyone uncovering anything - reading books is not uncovering. Going to gurus is not uncovering. Uncovering is uncovering. Did Tilopa have any Gurus? Did Lao Zi have any gurus? Did Gautama Buddha have any Gurus (he did some yoga for a while but dismissed it as nonsense and moved on). All we are doing is recycling old wisdom and trial/error. When's the last time anyone of our civilization uncovered something of the magnitude of chakras and changed the world?

[Aakash]

@tatsumaru your forgetting there was actually no “god” then. What they call belief in religion is actually spirituality. They were one tribe with one god. What is that other than oneness on a smaller scale. The god was their personified versions of themselves. 

They wouldn’t even use the word god, their exact words would be 

“spirit that lies in all of us” 

which is none other than their own awareness 

[tatsumaru]

5 hours ago, Aakash said:

@tatsumaru your forgetting there was actually no “god” then. What they call belief in religion is actually spirituality. They were one tribe with one god. What is that other than oneness on a smaller scale. The god was their personified versions of themselves. 

They wouldn’t even use the word god, their exact words would be 

“spirit that lies in all of us” 

which is none other than their own awareness 

Not sure what you are talking about. There was definitely a "god" belief way before Gautama Buddha was born. Moses dates back way before the Buddha and all the sages. There were also many gods in India as well. Buddha dismissed all of these as nonsense. He was very specific about how beliefs obscure reality. This should be the first step for anyone on the spiritual path. Beliefs fall into the same category with Hopes, Wishful thinking, Wanting reality to be other than what it is etc. I am actually shocked by how many people on this forum consider themselves awakened and preach that people should believe in x or z.

As Lao Tzu said, “The Tao gives birth to One. One gives birth to yin and yang. Yin and yang give birth to all things.” There is a Tao without One or Yin/Yang, but no One without a Yin/Yang, nor a Yin/Yang without a One, just as there is no Brahman without the illusion or magic show of maya. Oneness is Aristotelian nonsense; a prison of sorts, so distractional in its delusion, that bodhicitta is near totally obscured, and not even considered.

To better understand the difference between the Alaya Consciousness of Buddhism (which is actually beyond consciousness) and the Brahman Consciousness of Advaita (which implies “not two”), the following humorous story was said to be told in the Kevatta (Kevaddha) Sutta, as translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

“Where do the four elements cease without remainder?”

Through meditation the monk reached the Heaven of the Four Great Kings, who did not know the answer. Next he went to the thirty three gods in a higher Desire Realm heaven, but none of these rulers knew either. He then asked King Sakka (Indra), the king of these gods, but Sakka did not know the answer. Up and up he went asking all sorts of gods at each and every higher level. Finally he came to Great Brahma, the Creator, Uncreated, Knower of All.

When the monk finally achieved an audience with Great Brahma, Brahma appeared in all his majesty and glory announcing, “I am Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be.” The monk then humbly and respectfully asked his question, but all Great Brahma did was repeat, “I am Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be.”

The monk eventually got frustrated and said, “I know you are “Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be,” but I asked you a question about where the four elements cease without remainder. The Great Brahma replied, “Listen little monk, don’t embarrass me. All these other gods are listening and think I know everything. If you want to know the answer to a question like that, don’t ask me. I don’t know the answer. For a question like that, you have to go ask the Buddha.

Our monk gets up from his meditation and finds the Buddha nearby, asking him where the four elements cease without remainder.  The Buddha tells him that he’s thinking of the question incorrectly, and should ask where do the four elements have no foothold…”

[MuddyBoots]

@tatsumaru  "When's the last time anyone of our civilization uncovered something of the magnitude of chakras and changed the world?"

Chakras may be a special idea for some people and have changed the world for them, but they're no big deal for me; they're not proven scientifically and I've never felt them subjectively. Instead I have used modern methods like counselling successfully, also theories like quantum mechanics are innovations which have changed the world too. No disrespect to believers  in chakras, but isn't it a personal choice as to what are the important historical discoveries?
 

Edited August 6, 2019 by MuddyBoots

[tatsumaru]

13 hours ago, MuddyBoots said:

@tatsumaru  "When's the last time anyone of our civilization uncovered something of the magnitude of chakras and changed the world?"

Chakras may be a special idea for some people and have changed the world for them, but they're no big deal for me; they're not proven scientifically and I've never felt them subjectively. Instead I have used modern methods like counselling successfully, also theories like quantum mechanics are innovations which have changed the world too. No disrespect to believers  in chakras, but isn't it a personal choice as to what are the important historical discoveries?
 

This is not about believing or disbelieving etc. Truth is truth, beliefs are barriers to truth. Chakras may not be proven scientifically, but is science proven chakrafically? Lol. Few seem to realize that those considered priests of the scientific method have neither uncovered nor explained truth. That is not their job. Scientists have little interest in truth or absolute reality, for they are invested in the pursuit of accuracy about the relative facts about objects. Science builds its theorems or working hypotheses upon previous beliefs, and therefore labels any discussion of absolute certainty as absurd. Truth and absolute reality confuse the priests of the scientific method. Their paradigm is founded on concepts of a materially existing world; that is, sciential theorems, not the sapiential truth or the reality beyond objects. It can be said, and has been said, that science, like religious groupthink, clings to a faith in objects, to make their attachment to separateness more palatable. As the Nobel Laureate Charles Townes said, “Many people don’t realize that science basically involves assumptions and faith.”

[Aaron p]

Personally, I have been shocked at how accurate the voice of God is. Literally. As I grew in my ability to hear God's voice I heard her voice become clearer and clearer. God told me that I was going to discover something that I was really really going to like, something that would transform me. 

Then just 2 days before I broke into the revelation of spirituality, I heard god tell me that this was the last chance I had to change get my mind and I said "I want to do your will" (Since I was a christian at this point). Then I was watching one of Leo's videos and the voice came and literally said "stop, x marks the spot"...i.e. I then knew deeply in my being, that leo had the truth I sought. Then she said that my new name was Reuben, which means "I have a son" and I cried and cried, it was awesome. 

So with regards to your question, I feel like if someone seeks the lord with their whole heart, they will find Her. (Jeremiah 29:13, the Bible). There is something that draws and guides the seeker when they make covenant with the God-King. 

Also, I have insight into this. After enlightenment, you become shocked by how you didn't see the truth before. It becomes so obvious, it's hard to believe. In a dream, everything is dream, it's the only thing that exists...in a dream, the "dream material" is foundational, imagination. And so it makes sense that people start seeing the dream and it also explains why ancient mystics were able to see the dream, if the dream is all that exists...its obvious.

[tatsumaru]

23 hours ago, Aaron p said:

So with regards to your question, I feel like if someone seeks the lord with their whole heart, they will find Her. (Jeremiah 29:13, the Bible). There is something that draws and guides the seeker when they make covenant with the God-King. 

That is quite possible. Plenty of people seeking God before they even confirmed there's such a thing, guided by their beliefs they are already on the path to falsehood. The moment you start obscuring the truth with your beliefs it's no longer spirituality. In this dream world people can even manifest all kinds of miracles in their dream so why not a god as well. If you don't start from 0 then your spiritual journey isn't honest it becomes a pursuit of validating pre-existing beliefs.

23 hours ago, Aaron p said:

Also, I have insight into this. After enlightenment, you become shocked by how you didn't see the truth before. It becomes so obvious, it's hard to believe. In a dream, everything is dream, it's the only thing that exists...in a dream, the "dream material" is foundational, imagination. And so it makes sense that people start seeing the dream and it also explains why ancient mystics were able to see the dream, if the dream is all that exists...its obvious.

Are you enlightened?

[Aeris]

On 06/08/2019 at 6:42 PM, tatsumaru said:

Not sure what you are talking about. There was definitely a "god" belief way before Gautama Buddha was born. Moses dates back way before the Buddha and all the sages. There were also many gods in India as well. Buddha dismissed all of these as nonsense. He was very specific about how beliefs obscure reality. This should be the first step for anyone on the spiritual path. Beliefs fall into the same category with Hopes, Wishful thinking, Wanting reality to be other than what it is etc. I am actually shocked by how many people on this forum consider themselves awakened and preach that people should believe in x or z.

As Lao Tzu said, “The Tao gives birth to One. One gives birth to yin and yang. Yin and yang give birth to all things.” There is a Tao without One or Yin/Yang, but no One without a Yin/Yang, nor a Yin/Yang without a One, just as there is no Brahman without the illusion or magic show of maya. Oneness is Aristotelian nonsense; a prison of sorts, so distractional in its delusion, that bodhicitta is near totally obscured, and not even considered.

To better understand the difference between the Alaya Consciousness of Buddhism (which is actually beyond consciousness) and the Brahman Consciousness of Advaita (which implies “not two”), the following humorous story was said to be told in the Kevatta (Kevaddha) Sutta, as translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

“Where do the four elements cease without remainder?”

Through meditation the monk reached the Heaven of the Four Great Kings, who did not know the answer. Next he went to the thirty three gods in a higher Desire Realm heaven, but none of these rulers knew either. He then asked King Sakka (Indra), the king of these gods, but Sakka did not know the answer. Up and up he went asking all sorts of gods at each and every higher level. Finally he came to Great Brahma, the Creator, Uncreated, Knower of All.

When the monk finally achieved an audience with Great Brahma, Brahma appeared in all his majesty and glory announcing, “I am Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be.” The monk then humbly and respectfully asked his question, but all Great Brahma did was repeat, “I am Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be.”

The monk eventually got frustrated and said, “I know you are “Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be,” but I asked you a question about where the four elements cease without remainder. The Great Brahma replied, “Listen little monk, don’t embarrass me. All these other gods are listening and think I know everything. If you want to know the answer to a question like that, don’t ask me. I don’t know the answer. For a question like that, you have to go ask the Buddha.

Our monk gets up from his meditation and finds the Buddha nearby, asking him where the four elements cease without remainder.  The Buddha tells him that he’s thinking of the question incorrectly, and should ask where do the four elements have no foothold…”

Spirituality at a lvl doesn't need buddha zen or any belief.

What is belief/map : 

Osho - sadghurru - zen - chakra and all that - no mind 

 

No duality means : flowing into life

Telling this : this is dogma.

In the end this is litteraly 'bs'

You're a preacher. We just share our absolute with the best wording

[pluto]

When he finally realizes we are those ancient masters