Is the future known already?

[Aakash]

Self-referencing is self-deception lol. what are the alternatives ? nothing 

if this is the case and i self-referenced something more than the collective self-referencers ? 

what would this make me? 

The fact that beliefs are in fact truths, means they are absolute truth, there is only absolute truth, 

what would be the best way to solve this riddle? 

order truth by highest truth. that is the solution. how do we do this? 

mysticism! 

why does your direct experience tell you it is more truthful than mine! because you've said so! this is self-deception 

why does my direct experience tell me it is more truthful than yours! because i've said so! this is self -deception 

So how do we adjudicate this without repeat scientific experiment 

its simple, impossible. i would have to access your experience and this is impossible 

meaning the only solution to the issue is "no awareness or self-referencing" 

but how did this solve the problem itself? 

the perfect solution is to first understand that god is outside of yourself under all circumstances. This add's relativity and measurement possible. 

but you would need to understand "how reality works as best as you can" and then off-branch from that

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Aakash

[Schahin]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Your questions are confused because you are imagining a difference between God as disincarnate and as incarnate. The two are one.

 

When I said disincarnate god it was because even by the time one wakes up and realizes he is god still is he not in control of everything that happens in the universe not even of things that happen to himself. 

As much as you are god, if I ask you to shut down global warming now i suppose there you go back to your limits, or if I ask anybody to prevent a plane crashing, or meteorits bombarding the earth, so it seems they're is a will unfolding that is discarnate and exerts in "harmony" of everything there is. 

This is nothing that I as I am sitting here right now could actually prevent, therefore I say disincarnate god, , as much as I am God but I couldn't prevent my own heart attack here right now, allthough I am God, that I apply even to small things like itching the nose, you probably couldn't prevent itching your nose the same way like you cant prevent a sudden heart attack or a plane crashing, as much as your are god.

A more dramatic case would be a schizophrenic person, does ot really depend on him that he lives in panick and fear or is it the disincarnate god that decides that, because if he could choose he wouldnt choose to continue mentally ill anymore. Therefore when you say first one had to pick his nose and until then God hasn't decided to pick its nose, the schizophrenic doesn't even decide to be mentally disturbed that heavily but still that decision was done for him. 

If a hurricane or an earthquake come and take everything I have away and leave me alone without family and in poverty, that is not dependent on me to prevent it, but it is the discarnate me which is god that decided to do so, the incarnated me couldn't do anything about it. 

So it seems that the all encompassing god who decides consciously in harmony of maximizing love which also is not randomly, and following the chain of its decisions plus its infinite intelligence would make it possible for god (our non-self) to know what happens in the future

Edited August 6, 2019 by Schahin

[Leo Gura]

@Schahin You need to drop these questions and do the inquiry work. Going down this line of logic is only going to confuse you further.

You will only understand these things AFTER some enlightenment experiences. Trying to reason out the answers ahead of time will not work.

[Nahm]

3 hours ago, Schahin said:

a thought to take care for that itch and a sudden movement to itch it, therefore it doesnt seem that I (unconscious incarnated I) have control over any of these acts

Because there’s no scratching in meditation, there’s the coming & going of the itch, and unchanging awareness, aware of the thoughts, and the sensation. The suffering is the “I want to scratch it” thoughts. The itch becomes less of a problem, because it becomes less foreign, or ‘not you’, for having been aware of it..and then you’re cool with it, and it feels closer, more intimate now, more ‘me’ feeling, less foreign. The not scratching is like holding pulling a thread in a sweater. It starts coming undone, cause it’s all the one string. No string. 

Try to be absolutely willing...to see that all the examples and scenarios you gave are thoughts about, and the arguably most important note is instead scrutinizing direct experience. Then there are bigger itches, and bigger understandings, and more awareness.

 

 

[pluto]

Yes and No

It can be predicted from the NOW but it automatically and constantly changes based on the NOW.

In a sense, if you knew the future or were shown the future, it would automatically change just by you knowing/seeing it.

There is always a divine play going on but infinite amount of plays within the divine play 

Exciting isn't it?

 

 

[Schahin]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Schahin.

 

If humans are not in control, because they arent even real and there is no independent human free will, then the human just relaxes and says ok I'll trust the universe I have no control anyway, but then threads like this make it a paradox and say it all depends on you as you are god^^ it is totally paradox. 

We are all god yes but there is only one and we are an illsuion of it so if not awoken humans dont have free will how is it  finally up to us how the future looks like. 

If it depends on me (human not awoken yet, it would mean I have a free will and i act unconsciously and independently and that would not be in harmony with the all as I act independently, but at the end I am only an illusion anyway so who gives the command to the not awoken human and how does it super consciously act on decisions that lead somewhere in the future (or at least every decision god takes he must know the chain of consequences as well because nothing happens randomly and god decides for everyone and everything at the same time) . 

A not awoken human is by definition unconscious so the decisions cannot come from him as everything must be decided in a super conscious way. 

Basically if I dont know anything about enlightenment then the plan for this life is to stay unconscious if I am born to have psychic abilities, then the plan is to wake up, and that is also if I stumble over 5 Meo then the godhead plans for this human to wake up, because I suppose noone crosses 5 Meo Dmt by accident ans then accidentally wakes up, if it is not accidental then the human is not under control and there must be a certain plan. Which ia consciously worked up on every single moment, but infinite wisdom would be able to follow that chain of conscious decisions otherwise it would imply that it has no clue and is not infinitely intelligent which I suppise it is. 

Thats why i say disincarnate god. 

The question is can we as not awoken human Beings have any control on deciding for anything even it is just picking my nose?  When one says it depends on you how the future is going to be, does it depend really on me, as a not awoken human even if I'm God but the "plan" was for myself not to be enlightened yet and act unconsciously and egoic? 

Because if it really was up to me I would have wanted to meet god in my childhood already, but it wasnt up to me thats why I say the godhead (disincarnate god/me, not human) plans everything and knows where the future leads to

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Schahin

[Schahin]

16 minutes ago, Ero said:

Observe that any claims onto "What is known" or "How things are" are limited in consciousness. An open mind, approaching from the realization that you don't know anything, that all knowledge is groundless would give you the ability to check your stories. Realize the question "Is the future known already?" and why you're asking it and you'll be one step closer.

Hmmm it is basically out of curiosity, because I see some atrological predictions for people born in that certain month are so accurate, and also as said I was in awe when I heard so many near death experiences got messages from the spirit world as to what will happen on a certain date.

Also given the discussions that there is no free will and nothing happens randomly. 

Therefore I have a certain curiosity to know if God had a certain plan or if he already knew every single step before that particular living being started the journey. 

Basically i supposed through those accounts and given that god is inifinitely intelligent, and eternity itself, it knows exactly what will happen and reveals these things through astrological calculations

Edited August 6, 2019 by Schahin

[Schahin]

@Ero I see what you mean. They are indeed my decisions it makes so much sense now to realize this, but I mean they are mine but still not really in my control, my control as I am incarnate, because some decisions after I do regret, but ultimately god doesn't regret anything and but "we" do, and we keep sayin, if I had only done differently back then, but knowing that every decision is done in a super conscious act. 

At the end God doesn't regret any of them means they are happening in a higher consciousness the human is not aware of and they are totally planned every moment in harmony with everything else that exists (at least thats what I imply when I hear there is only one and everything is it) and not random at all, which leads to the question how and why does God or we take these decisions in a super conscious way and following the plan behind every decision plus the infinite intellugence, it will lead us somewhere as it is super conscious in total harmony and not random at all. 

If gods decisions are done forever and in every moment super conscious, and acts with infinite intelligence then it should be possible to follow up the chain of these non random decision into the future, and maybe that is what astrology does. 

In short, no plan and no clue of how the future looks like would imply randomness and coincidences and no infinite intelligence and not super conscious decision taking every single moment and the opposite is no coincidences nothing happens random everything is decided upon every single moment super consciously and very intelligently therefore that implies a plan.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Schahin

[SunnyNewDay]

nope, the future is just a thought, all that exists is now. future is a concept for practical use of interacting in the environment. it never exists. all that exists is now.

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

There seems to be a creative force that guides the Universe in some upward (consciousness and complexity) direction. But practically, the future is in some way determined by the past and at the same time able to be changed by us. No, the future is not 100% known - it can be predicted but never really fully known.

 

[Schahin]

28 minutes ago, Ero said:

@Schahin To balance your current realization, let's try a different story (which ultimately is the same). What you see as determined is a result of a choice (as we said, you can become conscious of that). Yet from that doesn't follow a causality of what your next choice will be. The argumentation and rationalization behind a "choice" is just a story we tell ourselves to keep the perception of a self (Influence>>self>>action). At every moment you have a choice, which is not determined by anything. As a self you have a fraction of God's choice, so for e.g from your current perception you can't change a lamp into an apple. Yet you can also become conscious as God that you're willing that lamp into existence. All argumentation for a choice is fundamentally a result of a fear from the ultimate uncertainty that Life is. Focus on your awareness now of Knowing. The purpose should be stepping behind the story.

@Ero If I (human I not awoken yet) choose something it is totally because ideas, urges and desires pop up into my mind and I follow them or don't follow them but also the idea not to follow them is also something that pops up into ones head.

If we say it depends on us how the future will look like it would mean that we all have free will and choose what ideas, intuitions and desires pop up into our head. 

You as a human also can do what you want but cannot want what you want (Schoppenhauer). 

So ultimately its me/us that comes up  in the backstage comes up with these ideas. But as most people are not conscious of this me/godhead and even less conscious that this me is everything, therefore it can only be happening in the backstage for everything together at the sane time superconsciously decision by decision, but one decision now means he(godhead) has to take the next decision the next moment.

Now the question is the next moment does god fall into a kind of uncertainty of what shall I decide to do now or is he absolutely certain of it and does it this way and no other way, because if he is absolutely certain every single moment then there cannot be any other unfolding than this particular unfolding of the story folowing the chain of causality. 

If the future is not certain that means that god acts every moment with uncertainty between various possibilities, but the mere fact that he chooses super consciously one possibility and most importantly probably he or we do it with absolute certainty and god probably does not hesitate being infinitely intelligent then that would also determine the future. 

No determined future would mean god decides every moment not being totally sure  and absolutely certain on which possibility would be the right one. 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Schahin

[Schahin]

Sorry brothers, but I think the answers are way too one sided here. Every question just gets answered by you are god period hehe. 

Why were we born on this difficult planet with all the degenaration, the cruelties, crime, corruption, wars etc.... 

Why werent we born in a utopian world which most definitely exists in this infinite Consciousness, its not that god also wants to experience suffering, its more that suffering is part of earth and surely there are other worlds to experience which are totally perfect loving and where everybody is awoken and lives in nature and not in big bustling cities begging in the street or prostituting yourself and so on and so forth. 

Also where do we humans actually come from? The ancient sumerers said we are a mizture of apes and Intelligent ETs which makes more sense given that we are weird as a species and not really in harmony with nature.these sumerers also already knew about all the planets in our solar system which modern telescopes only found out 100 years ago. 

All these questions and more (Jesus, the world wars, trump...)and the general question of who are we as humans where do we come from and why did we inherit such a disconnected earth? These arise and are essential in knowing more about gods dream and also spark curiosity to know what happens in the future. 

Why are astrological predictions, ancient prophecies and near death account predictions so true and accurate? 

If there is only one god and he takes all the decisions with perfect certainty and not uncertainty then there can onky be one way because any other way would imply that god is uncertain every single moment. The other possibilities might happen in parallel universes but this one here unfolds itself with the greatest certainty of god taking decisions. 

The dream we are living is not to be disregarded, it is still a dream, existence and reality itself. So many things within this dream are so mysterious and just saying its all fake doesnt give it the credit it deserves. 

Every single one of us humans (whereever our origins might be, our human origins not our god origins) is a universe by itself with trillions of cells that are a universe by itself and work in such a mysterious way, that same mysterious way the whole universe and planet and nature are working. 

The sudden awakening wave that is occurring on the planet now cannot be coincidence either. 

We must still ask questions about stuff that happens in the dream because the mystery is not solved by saying you are god, every concept is wrong period. 

People that say that these are all concepts and concepts all fall apart ones you awaken, they might be right but they discredit the meaning and richness to this dream and illusion, escaping the mystery of being a human on earth. It seems like everything is an illusion now. Even basic questions cannot be answered when one awakens. Where did humans really come from, why are you that particular person in that particular constellation of family.

If you are god, and cannot answer how the human beings really evolved and came to the planet earth, then you have already escaped the dream and cannot see its richness and beauty and its struggles also. Trying to partake in the dream, knowing its a dream but still remaining curious without being certain to know all the answers is the way I think. It still remains a mystery and within the dreams there still are concepts and so much diversity and richness. Trying to reply everything saying that there is nothing, doesnt partake in the mystery  solving. 

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Schahin

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Schahin said:

Trying to reply everything saying that there is nothing, doesnt partake in the mystery  solving.

You will never understand it unless you realize Absolute Infinity and Absolute Love.

Then all questions are answered at once.

The meaning and richness is infinite. I am not discrediting it. Just the opposite. You don't have any idea yet how rich it all is.

[Guru Fat Bastard]

Future is a projection of the past in thought-time. Time is thought,thought is time. So any thought of past or future,which is  time,is a superimposed, imaginary boundary and/or limit, on the timeless "isness" or  being of  what always is, and always has been,the case. So any movement of thought towards what is not, is away from the truth of the always and abiding timeless presence of "what is" being in and of it's own emptiness or no-thingness. Moving away from this emptiness of no-self or selfless Self, one enters the mental construct of "me",time,past, and future. All of which, is "what is not". What they call the illusion of Maya,what is 'not real" or not reality.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Guru Fat Bastard

[Schahin]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You will never understand it unless you realize Absolute Infinity and Absolute Love.

Then all questions are answered at once.

The meaning and richness is infinite. I am not discrediting it. Just the opposite. You don't have any idea yet how rich it all is.

Yeah but thats exactly it, if we see the richness and meaning in this life on earth 2019, questions arise that are still a mystery. 

Where does the human really come from? Was he a direct result of ape evolution or is he really a product of ET intelligence. 

Then there ars prophecies very ancient ones that say these ET will soon return to show themselves or that they many times were present for ancient humans already and also that the earth civilization will undergo an awakening process that comes after an era of degeneration and loss of connection towards life and nature and mother earth. 

It seem that we are in a quite different phase and era now and why is this world not a utopia world? Combined with the notion that the human as an illusion doesnt have free will, its not so easy to say we change the future. 

Especially because if you really want to make an impact on the future you need to awaken otherwise you just follow whatever appears in your mind and care for your ego instead of for the collective. That itself makes a huge difference, because once you know that you are one with everybody else, the future you and all other humans create is totally different than thinking that everybody and everything is separate and its about survival more then about love, love is just something you feel for your partner and family not for everybody. 

And how many people are truly awaken out of 8 billion in population? 

Certainly if everybody was awoken and selfless the future would be one of an awoken and selfless humanity that goes back to caring for nature and finally finds out why humans really exist, if just a few people are awoken then things stay as they are. 

So there must be a plan behind this to awaken people step by step show them their true nature so that they can consciously and selflessly work towards a better future otherwise the future will just be more degeneratjon towards nature ans more disconnect through more advanced technology. 

Then the question arises, is awakening a coincidence? When you say that until you havent awoken god hasnt awoken does it mean that just by total coincidence you stumbled upon a tool called 5 Meo or just by coincidence you stumbled upon the other tools that arose curiosity in you to awaken? 

Or were you meant to find 5 Meo and the other tools? 

The same is with this sudden awakening wave, are so many peiple meant to awaken all of a sudden or does everybody of them find out about it by coincidence? 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Schahin