Is Bernie Sander’s medicare for all plan really the most conscious?

[Aakash]

@Leo Gura okay I’m not disagreeing with the spiral dynamics. I’m all in agreeance with what you said theoretically. 

However, China Actually use their dao-ism and balancing of ying and yang within their systems itself and dealing with countries. Chinese culture is about doing business through partnerships. Now I’m not saying they’re not devilish. Because there is a lot of corruption as to be expected. But what I’m comparing is the rate of growth from China vs America in the next century. China will actually sort its problems out faster than America has. Simply because they are anti-America in nationality. 

Are you trying to say that ego development has to drop nationality after stage blue? Because I feel like this is only done at stage turquoise. Even at stage yellow, your trying to develop more functional systems, but your main goal, is always going to be favouring your own country. 

[Leo Gura]

49 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yeah but China's economy is growing at a fast rate which on the current pace will surpass our own.

That is just more Orange. The more materialism the bigger the problem.

Also, they have 1 billion people, so their economy should be at least 3 times bigger than the US economy just to break even.

Quote

I wouldn't be so quick to say they aren't more spiritually advanced either.

The Chinese government is officially Communist and atheist. They eradicate temples and oppress freedom of religion. They have been vicious against Tibet and Muslim minorities. They are not spiritually advanced at all.

41 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Leo Gura However, China Actually use their dao-ism and balancing of ying and yang within their systems itself and dealing with countries. Chinese culture is about doing business through partnerships. Now I’m not saying they’re not devilish. Because there is a lot of corruption as to be expected. But what I’m comparing is the rate of growth from China vs America in the next century. China will actually sort its problems out faster than America has. Simply because they are anti-America in nationality. 

No, you have a utopian picture of Chinese spirituality. Daoism is non-existent there in practice.

China is not really anti-American. They are even more rabidly materialistic than America.

They are not just going to skip from stage Blue to Green. They will go through all the mistakes and pathologies that America went through. But it will take them even longer because at least America had free speech, freedom of religion, and democratic elections from day 1. It will take China 50-100 years to sort that out.

Quote

Are you trying to say that ego development has to drop nationality after stage blue?

Not drop nationality but expand toward globalism and multiculturalism.

Right now the majority of China is still stage Blue.

[Aakash]

@Leo Gura I see, I had a bit of an epiphany when I was taking a whizz 10 minutes ago. What if my view on things is too utopian ? LOL, it’s like we’re all trying to creAte a utopia and the one who’s most realistic wins. 

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They will go through all the mistakes and pathologies that America went through.

But why must they undergo ALL the same mistakes, is this simply because tier 1 is stuck in their own frame of reference. 

[Apparition of Jack]

@Joseph Maynor If you're going to be so dismissive of other people's respectful criticisms of you, why are you even here? Why would you come to a Self-Actualization forum if you're not actually interested in Self-Actualization?

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Apparation of Jack

[Aeris]

9 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

The set of people who have legitimate severe incapacities is relatively small.  

Imagine that iq is Real Joseph you prob got 130 and more. So your mind project that people have the tools. + Law of magnétism ( self prophecy of avoiding the 'dumb' )

your whole perspective could be a bit bias. Most people are truly 'mongs' incapable of growth ( unless provided by high conscious leader ).

You can only 'Guess mind' how it work in the head of others based upon your own perspective.

Without test everyone on this forum is above an average metric of 130 iq. ( Assumption of course )

80% of earth is incapable of using abstract thinking more than for cook a pizza. 

So maybe I m wrong here. One way or the other.

 

If you don't see that 80% are too stuck in surviving or stupidity. We can't help without structure.

Some monkeys are prob more smart than humans.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Aeris

[Leo Gura]

Cut the personal sniping.

[Aeris]

15 hours ago, Girzo said:

I live in Poland, the country with GDP per capita equal to 1/4 that of the USA.

I never had to pay for a doctors visit, dental care or surgery. Routine health check-ups and blood tests are also covered by public insurance. People are encouraged to do more cancer tests, etc.

Employer has to obligatory pay around $200 for public health insurance of every worker (after ending education or 25th birthday).

There is option for additional private insurance, almost always given as a benefit to workers by big corporations.

I find claims that it can't be done in a country as wealthy as the US absurd.

France is the best.

Once I was blessed.

They took me hospital anesthésia + fix head. ( Because over drunk )

They prob took my name except I got no ID card on me.

Left in the morning never call me back.

France totaly destroyed survival.

There is welfare of 500-800€ a month aswell if you do not work.

Well all country without this features looks Prehistoric too me. There is cons though..

It looks almost stupid to work with the welfare system

[Michael569]

As an Eastern European living in UK, I can tell that public healthcare system has massive flaws, inadequacies and substantial bureaucracy but.....once you get really sick, the medical treatment will be superior. You will be sent from one expert to another and if your financial situation is weak, you will receive some medication without payment. This is if you are really sick though (cancer, heart failure etc...) 

If you are just "kinda" ill you'll be sent home with paracetamol. So there are lots of very very undiagnosed cases because the General Practitioners do not have time to assess everyone and work on medical textbook symptomology recognition and once these people do get diagnose its often too late.

That being said, if your father has a heart attack, he will be treated exceptionally well by paramedics, transported to hospital, put on IVs and monitored for couple days at no additional costs.

The system is still overburdened by hypochondriacs, schemes and manipulators exploiting the free healthcare but overal it kinda does the work for those who are investing zero effort in their own health and for those with acute accidents and conditions.  

[Aeris]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@Aeris  High Intellect can easily be a liability in life if it's not directed in wise ways.

I didn't say that high intellect means high wisdom you're right to précise it.

I make the distinction.

It is a skill in the tree.

Intellec for me is the 'power capacity' for abstract thinking.

You can use it stupidly

[archi]

To return to the topic:

1) it is a social construct so people share the cost - in this case it is via taxes on income and estates, it is one of the way how to distribute wealth so be it

2) prevention is the most cost effective treatment - where modern "western" medicine is more effective than holistic one is certainly butchery (in a positive sense )  

3) uncorrupted control of prices and spending can significantly decrease cost of healthcare already now - this is the reason of the ballooning healthcare budgets in the Europe and other places with "free" public HC

I base my understanding of Bernie's Medicare for All on: 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/10/bernie-sanders-unveils-medicare-for-all-bill-amid-2020-democratic-primary.html

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file

[archi]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

All advanced democracies except the US have public healthcare systems that work.

Name the countries where it really works ...

[Space]

4 hours ago, Michael569 said:

As an Eastern European living in UK, I can tell that public healthcare system has massive flaws

What would you say are the massive flaws?

The UK healthcare system is quite amazing imo. Yes, there are some not so good GPs, but of course thats down to the individual not the system. 90% of my GP appointments have been exceptional, no matter how small the issue is.

The only thing that should be changed is giving the damn nhs staff higher wages.

[Aeris]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is not a systemic solution.

If your solution is have people save up money to pay for $100,000 surgeries and cancer treatments, that will result in the unnecessary deaths and suffering of millions of people.

Don't then be surprised when some depressed, angry guy walks into a school and shoots your child in the face. All because that guy is pissed off that his child died of a cancer which he didn't have the money to treat.

Don't forget, everything is connected in society. What goes around comes around. If you treat people like animals they will act like animals.

If your own mother was hungry, would you let her starve on the streets? If you own mother broke her leg in the woods, would you leave her out there by herself to fight off the wolves? Why do you take that attitude towards others in desperate need?

If not everyone is healed and have the self survival need fulfilled and tools to sustain.

As long as people got problems there should be solutions.

/____/

How a self sack of shit you should be to accuse people of abusing the system by getting cancer or heavy surgery.

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Aeris

[Truthority]

@Joseph Maynor I agree with your mentality 100%. 

It's time to stop relying on doctors and government officials to fix your life. They won't. They never will. Who wins the next election in USA has zero relevance on your life. 

The whole idea of health care is a scam and takes all the power away from you. You are basically bending over and saying rape me world. 

You are the doctor. 
You are the government. 
You are the president. 
You are THE WORLD.
You are culture. 
You are society. 

I also think Leo's video series on politics is a complete waste of time. I gave up after part 1. 

You are making 4 hour videos raving about political nonsense yet you are not willing to have a single conversation with anyone who might disagree with you. I mean seriously? You call that politics?

I suggest you all get back to your lives and stop distracting yourself with this garbage. 

We have much bigger fish to fry. 

Become the example. 

Talk is cheap. 

These conversations are completely fucking pointless.

shits and giggles

Edited August 5, 2019 by Truthority

[Truthority]

19 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

There's a deeper problem here: getting people to realize that their first duty in life is to not be poor.

Exactly. 

And to stop complaining and bitching and moaning and whining that the world is wrong because it's not the way you like it to be.

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, archi said:

Name the countries where it really works ...

Canada

[kieranperez]

40 minutes ago, Truthority said:

@Joseph Maynor I agree with your mentality 100%. 

It's time to stop relying on doctors and government officials to fix your life. They won't. They never will. Who wins the next election in USA has zero relevance on your life. 

The whole idea of health care is a scam and takes all the power away from you. You are basically bending over and saying rape me world. 

You are the doctor. 
You are the government. 
You are the president. 
You are THE WORLD.
You are culture. 
You are society. 

I also think Leo's video series on politics is a complete waste of time. I gave up after part 1. 

You are making 4 hour videos raving about political nonsense yet you are not willing to have a single conversation with anyone who might disagree with you. I mean seriously? You call that politics?

I suggest you all get back to your lives and stop distracting yourself with this garbage. 

We have much bigger fish to fry. 

Become the example. 

Talk is cheap. 

These conversations are completely fucking pointless.

shits and giggles

Trying to refrain from vomiting from smelling this smoking pile of bullshit that I gotta grab an alkaseltzer 

[supremeyingyang]

@Aeris@Joseph Maynor

CONTEXT: I took something that Aeris wrote one side ago, because I considered it more interesting.

IQ is a interesting Thing to consider.

In Germany, were I'm from, we have an Average of 104 IQ Points with a Standard Deviation of 15. Rougly 68% of the Population are within that range (89-119iqp) . 95% of the Population are within 2 Standart Deviations (74-134 iqp). Everything <70 is considered to be a handycap.

Suppose IQ is real. Suppose further you have an IQ of 130. You would like to associate with people +-10 Points. Less and they can't follow, more and you can't follow. A normal Person with 104IQ would be stupid in relation to a Person with an IQ of 130. A 'still normal' Person with an IQ of 90 would be not bearable to you. To be sure: Most of the People are not that bright as you if you are 130. You would be in the top 5 %. I don't think many here are around 130. But even if many were around 130 - who cares if they don't make an Inpact?

Edited August 5, 2019 by supremeyingyang

[supremeyingyang]

THAT is exactly what I wrote!

[supremeyingyang]

I hate all this Attitude. Everyone likes to think of himself as clever. But look at how people interact and create results. It's sad.

It is not only about IQ, but what you do with it. I bet you could be a good Scientist with a slightly above average IQ if you put in the work.

Edit:
On Healthcare... I think it would be cool if everyone could have Healthcare. Who would pay it? But in Germany we have Health Care. Our best doctors go to England or in whatever country pays better. I am still an Advocate of personal responsibility, but yeah it's nice to see a doctor if you need to 'for free'. But really it ain't free. Be sure: We pay a lot in taxes for it. A lot.

I dislike Bernie Sanders as a Person. If he would win god know who the blue americans would vote next. This time we got Trump. Next Time?? There will be a big ego backlash, because it is against the tradition of half of the population

Edited August 5, 2019 by supremeyingyang