Is Bernie Sander’s medicare for all plan really the most conscious?

[Betterself]

I’m all for Medicare for all, but I don’t agree with Bernie’s plan to make private insurance illegal. Yes the government run healthcare might be better for most people, but why not let the free market prove that? If it wins over private insurance in the free market the conservatives will become way more convinced. And if, to my surprise, the government run healthcare would not work out too well this time, having the private insurance as a backup would be nice. Also private insurance could theoretically serve as a little competition for the government alternative which is always nice for innovation.

Yes private insurance sucks, but why not let people choose themselves and let the free market show everyone that Medicare for all is good? There are a few ways in which I think Bernie is going too socialistic compared to other candidates. Is this Bernie being stuck in stage green and not yellow?

Edited August 4, 2019 by Betterself

[tenta]

He will be taxing the middle class to make free healthcare for all work, instead of taxing the very rich, sure the middle class will still benefit because they'll be getting free medicare for all for the increased taxes, but it could be sustained purely by taxing the very rich more

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Betterself said:

I’m all for Medicare for all, but I don’t agree with Bernie’s plan to make private insurance illegal. Yes the government run healthcare might be better for most people, but why not let the free market prove that? If it wins over private insurance in the free market the conservatives will become way more convinced. And if, to my surprise, the government run healthcare would not work out too well this time, having the private insurance as a backup would be nice. Also private insurance could theoretically serve as a little competition for the government alternative which is always nice for innovation.

Yes private insurance sucks, but why not let people choose themselves and let the free market show everyone that Medicare for all is good? There are a few ways in which I think Bernie is going too socialistic compared to other candidates. Is this Bernie being stuck in stage green and not yellow?

So you are saying have a hybrid - ensure all people have health care but let people keep their private insurance...

More of the type of policy that Delaney says he wants to put in place.

What benefits would a person have by keeping their private insurance though? Perhaps better benefits? 

I think we would need to see his plan in detail...a lot of politicians claim they have these big plans already worked out but then they don't share the details.

Also just so you know that i have always been a conservative - i make plenty of money and have my own private health insurance.

But since having awakening experiences i now have compassion for all so i would be willing to give up my private health insurance if it would benefit the collective.   I'm leaning back towards the left now.

But i don't see a problem with a hybrid plan either provided it worked and provided benefits on both sides.  

Most conservatives are stage orange conscious wise so they are gonna reject Bernie's as too radical..they're not that evolved yet.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

The free market has proven that private health insurance is a scam.

All advanced democracies except the US have public healthcare systems that work.

This is just a no brainer to people who live in those countries.

Medicare works great for seniors. Now just imagine that expanded to everyone.

[SerpaeTetra]

Remember its just a plan.  If he is voted in, he will probably have to settle somewhere in the middle to pass a bill.  I think it will take a few more democratic presidents before private insurance is fully eliminated.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Shiva said:

IMO American healthcare is fantastic

It's not fantastic even if you have money.

I am considered upper class. I buy my own health insurance. It still sucks. It's very expensive, deductibles are very high, and the paperwork is so complex and full of so many scams and loopholes that if I had a serious health issue it would be nightmare to deal with. I basically pay for it but never use it. I pay for all my medicine and basic doctors visits cash, out of pocket just to avoid dealing with all the limitations and hassles of my insurance.

This winter I went for a couple of doctors visits for a common cold/flu. I was supposed to pay like $50 co-pays and that's it. Then 3 months later they send me a bill for $300 more that I supposedly owe them. Yet none of these costs/fees were told to me upfront. That's how the system is deliberately designed to work. No costs are fairly announced. The system is so byzantine and opaque by design so that they could charge you any ridiculous fees they want. No other industry works this way. It's totally corrupt and needs to be nuked from on high.

And I'm not even talking about the thousands of people who die every year due to lack of coverage. But the hassles of dealing with all the paperwork alone is enough to warrant nuking the system. It's absurdly inefficient.

Meanwhile in Canada you can just go to the doctor for a surgery and pay nothing out of pocket. And no absurd paperwork.

[Leo Gura]

@Shiva What's even crazier is that I pay $300/mo for health insurance which I basically cannot use because it has a $7000 deductible. So it's only usable if I have a serious illness/surgery. And under this plan, my choice of doctors is extremely limited. My insurance does not cover my favorite doctors. I have to go to the worst doctors in town if I want insurance to cover it. Otherwise I'd need a much more expensive insurance plan.

This makes preventative care very hard.

The system is not designed to help sick people, it is designed to exploit the sick.

[Girzo]

I live in Poland, the country with GDP per capita equal to 1/4 that of the USA.

I never had to pay for a doctors visit, dental care or surgery. Routine health check-ups and blood tests are also covered by public insurance. People are encouraged to do more cancer tests, etc.

Employer has to obligatory pay around $200 for public health insurance of every worker (after ending education or 25th birthday).

There is option for additional private insurance, almost always given as a benefit to workers by big corporations.

I find claims that it can't be done in a country as wealthy as the US absurd.

[ValiantSalvatore]

I don't know how it is in Canada and other countries, so I am unsure if there are mandatory health insurances in other countries. For instance I had to change my health insurance now and the health insurance company sent me a bill of over 700€. I called them all I had to do is to give them proof that I changed the insurance. Yet on the letter they wrote I voluntarily choose to cover myself with their health insurance, I never did that. I don't have to pay now.

So, I can see that corporate interest plays a role, they just abuse the law that everyone needs to be covered with a health insurance, banning the private sector sounds interesting, I am not very well-versed with the German system or systems in other countries. I heard many people complained about Obama Care, yet when I asked the people in my immediate enviroment they were not able to give me facts, which were not post-factical. All they said it was shit etc. 

I don't know how difficult it is to pass a bill as a president in a bi-cameral system, where the two parties seem to be at war. Yet, something the U.S President has which other countries don't is passing laws by decree. So, potentiall Bernie could circumvent that with his health insurance policies. But, I don't know how feasible that is. If he get's elected. Or if it is even good/positive for the U.S citizens. 


 

Edited August 4, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[Leo Gura]

Bernie will not be able to pass Medical For All with winning the Senate and also massive popular support from the people. His whole strategy is to lead a cultural movement to get it done. It won't be easy and he knows that. It needs to become a cultural movement along the lines of Civil Rights in the 60's.

The health insurance industry will throw hundreds of millions of dollars to stop Bernie if he starts to get close. They will fight this thing to the bitter end. The devilry will get shameless because that industry will be fighting for its life like a cornered racoon.

[Leo Gura]

David Doel is great at talking about this. He's a Canadian and he explains how Canada's healthcare system works:

 

 

[ValiantSalvatore]

That is how it feels like watching small segments on Instagram where he takes people to Canada to receive medical care, or in general american politics it seems literally like constant rallies. It's quite moving, but I feel the details get lost mostly. For e.g a free market cannot exist when there are laws. So, I don't quite get the talks about the free market, it's all connected it's a travesty of some sort. 

I am not sure what the president can do with a decree, but enforcing something so larger upon a whole nation, is quite radical but I am also not sure how corrput the senat is. It would be a bold move if he can do it and would do it. 

If I would not have changed the insurance timely I'd had to pay 7 times of what I pay now, all because corporate interest to circumvent laws. I mean they could have said stay with us pay 50 bucks, but no. Pay 700.

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The free market has proven that private health insurance is a scam.

All advanced democracies except the US have public healthcare systems that work.

This is just a no brainer to people who live in those countries.

Medicare works great for seniors. Now just imagine that expanded to everyone.

Have to totally agree.  Its way overpriced.  

[archi]

Private insurance is business.

Public insurance is a black hole for money.

Save on insurance and make sure you are healthy up to 70+ y.o. so you prepare yourself for big expenses if required ... (Leo 4k in 50y plus interest is nice bag of money)

However, why to care if you are infinite?! There is no worry and all is unnecessary complain.

 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, archi said:

Save on insurance and make sure you are healthy up to 70+ y.o.

This is not a systemic solution.

If your solution is have people save up money to pay for $100,000 surgeries and cancer treatments, that will result in the unnecessary deaths and suffering of millions of people.

Don't then be surprised when some depressed, angry guy walks into a school and shoots your child in the face. All because that guy is pissed off that his child died of a cancer which he didn't have the money to treat.

Don't forget, everything is connected in society. What goes around comes around. If you treat people like animals they will act like animals.

If your own mother was hungry, would you let her starve on the streets? If you own mother broke her leg in the woods, would you leave her out there by herself to fight off the wolves? Why do you take that attitude towards others in desperate need?

[CreamCat]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But the hassles of dealing with all the paperwork alone is enough to warrant nuking the system. It's absurdly inefficient.

The same can be said about conditional welfare. In particular, american conditional welfare is broken. It's so broken that I suspect it is a scheme to embezzle tax dollars. Poor people starve to death because of broken welfare.

Europeans say that USA is the richest third world country. It's broken welfare and medicare.

Edited August 4, 2019 by CreamCat

[Tetcher]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Shiva What's even crazier is that I pay $300/mo for health insurance which I basically cannot use because it has a $7000 deductible. So it's only usable if I have a serious illness/surgery. And under this plan, my choice of doctors is extremely limited. My insurance does not cover my favorite doctors. I have to go to the worst doctors in town if I want insurance to cover it. Otherwise I'd need a much more expensive insurance plan.

Can't you find a better insurance ?

[Leo Gura]

@Tetcher Better insurance would cost 50% to 100% more per month. It just doesn't make sense to pay that.

The point of Medicare For All is that it would have the leverage necessary to significantly negotiate down the costs of healthcare. Right now the system is way more expensive than it needs to be because of the private health insurance middleman. This middleman makes a huge profit while providing very little value and actually adding negative value with all the byzantine paperwork.

[CreamCat]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The point of Medicare For All is that it would have the leverage necessary to significantly negotiate down the costs of healthcare.

The accurate term for medicare for all is single-payer healthcare. The government is the sole payer with single-payer helathcare. The sole payer has a lot of leverage to cut down prices.

Edited August 4, 2019 by CreamCat

[Leo Gura]

@CreamCat Right now the US government is specifically not allowed to negotiate down prices on medicine. It's absurd.