Leo, can universal conciousness be an ilusion?

[Inliytened1]

24 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

@Leo Gura and all others, have you watched someone die or be born since integrating your non-dual experiences?

@Rodrigo SIlva I'm tagging you in case we get interesting responses. I think this might be insightful for everybody.

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For the average person, when watching someone die, we might think: "oh, so human beings eventually cease to be." We think this because the human meat-bag that we observe, which was once animated, is now no longer animated.

The apparent lack of animation tends to characterize what we call "physical death." We don't consider death to have occurred until the body stops acting. (breathing, heart beating, etc.) I am using "acting" and "animating" interchangeably.

Along with this ceasing of animation, the distinct qualities that this human meat-bag once exhibited appear to cease as well: the things which we might call "personality" or "soul."

"Personality" and "soul," it seems, are merely the labels we give unto the cumulative actions of a human meat-bag. This is why we think of "souls" as exclusive to "sentient beings." It is conventionally agreed upon that rocks do not have "soul" simply for the observation that they do not act.

So throughout the process of observing a "physical death," we might conclude that death is the ceasing of animation in a body and consequently the extinguishing of whatever self-animating qualities were contained within (i.e. "soul.")

Furthermore, we tend to believe (unsurprisingly, due to culture): "I am a human being." This is a vague notion. Are we the body? Are we the soul? In my experience, most people I talk to believe that they are a soul of some type. The body is what is "had" by the "I."

So what is the "I?" The soul! Of course!

The point is, the "soul" was seemingly shown to have been extinguished through the process of observing "physical death."

Since many believe that they ARE the "soul," this might lead us to think: "I will eventually cease to be." That is to say, we can make the abstract connection that just as the meat-bag before our eyes is no longer capable of animation, and consequently there is no "soul" to be found within, the same thing will occur to ME, the SOUL that I AM if MY body were to undergo this "death."

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Conversely, as the Greeks once thought, one might arrive at the opposite conclusion that, "though the body has died, the soul lives on!" One might argue this on the basis that since the body was possessed by the soul, "physical death" is merely the relinquishing of this possession, and that the "soul" is doing its "soul thing" elsewhere independent of the body.

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Now, I understand that everything typed thus far is absolutely relative, grounded in nothing but circular, self-referencing imagery.

Furthermore, it would be impossible to arrive at any of the conclusions above in the absence of a thinking mind.

The biggest kicker is, this whole thing hinges on a false notion of "I."

So I am not arguing for these conclusions whatsoever. Rather, I am doing my best to illustrate the common way of thinking about death, and I am acknowledging that there is a fair reason that one might imagine that they will eventually cease to be.

It's not an accident that almost every adult human has some notion of nonexistence. This notion was deliberately arrived at through a combination of hearsay and observation.

This notion is especially convincing if you happen to have the opportunity to watch a death occur right in front of your eyes.

Personally, my grandmother is due to die within a week. This might sound (very) insensitive, but I'm weirdly looking forward to watching it occur. Of course, I love my grandmother (to whatever limits relative love has) and... now I just sound like a dick haha. Wow, it's very hard not to sound crazy the second you question cultural norms. (i.e "death" is "bad," "love" is "good")

So anyway, have you witnessed what we call "physical death?" Or conversely, have you witnessed "birth?"

It's easier to accept that "you were never born" or that "you can never die" while you are sitting alone in your room, but can you really say that while watching your grandma die?

Well, I'll find that out soon, but I'm interested in hearing your take.

You are in a dream.  Everything that is happening is a dream or a hallucination.  Including physical death.  

This becomes evident when you awake - consciousness is Infinite..  Death is a dualistic illusion.  God/Infintiy It has nowhere to go.  When you awake you awaken to yourself as God and the illusion is no more.   The illusion of form dissolves.   You awaken to yourself as Infinite Consciousness which cannot die.  Only that which you create through your dreams can die.  

Edited August 3, 2019 by Inliytened1

[RendHeaven]

@Inliytened1 Yes I'm aware. But can you maintain that resolve when a loved one dies in front of your eyes?

I don't think this is something that can be hand-waved away so easily, even after realizations of oneness.

It's a total mindfuck, especially because your ego may want to grieve and your ideas about "oneness" might prevent you from being authentic in that moment.

[Inliytened1]

@RendHeaven that's correct.  When you are being you..guess what?  You ain't being God.  Thats the point of being you!...you will feel the dream..as you should.

But...there is a non-dual awareness that develops with Oneness that allows you to be conscious in the backround of Truth.   This will deepen with time.

The trick is going meta and shifting to it.  You cant be both simultaneously.  Ya just can't.

43 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

@Inliytened1 i just edited that post sorry for butchering it there is an issue on my mobile phone where i can't remove quotes.

[RendHeaven]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You cant be both simultaneously. Ya just can't.

I see. Fantastic answer.

I think in the back of my mind I am still wrestling to have both going at the same time.

Must contemplate more!

[Inliytened1]

@RendHeaven you're finite. By design.

That only happens in a state of pure Being.  Pure Infinity.