Objections To Spirituality Mega-Thread

[Aakash]

@SunnyNewDay life itself is the blessing ? What more could you ask for. It’s a miracle even any of this is happening and there is much much much much more out there that you wouldn’t even believe ? and neither would absolute infinity. ??‍♂️ Absolute infinity is a baby in love with himself, he choose to design things the way he wanted with his free will given to him. Truth is an interesting thing. It never brings any safeties. Even if that means you have to trade your life for a chance to zoom across god and see it all for yourself without your human parents. And re-live trillions and trillions of life times just to see it. ?? 

Life is like a beach party, some decide to play volleyball, some decide to surf, some decide to build sandcastles. It’s absolute free will. 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Aakash

[cetus]

I like this! It's coming FULL circle!

[Leo Gura]

41 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

So, enlightenment is an experience too?

Not quite. Enlightenment is the recontextualization of "experience" into Being/Absolute Truth.

The raw data of perception doesn't change, it just gets recontextualized, reinterpreted.

So your coffee table still looks like a coffee table but it is no longer a coffee table, it is recognized to be the mind of God.

[cetus]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No quite. Enlightenment is the recontextualization of "experience" into Being/Absolute Truth.

Conscious experience happens on the blank screen of the absolute.

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, AlldayLoop said:

Have you considered doing any of the following?:

• Online live video webinars w/ one-on-one live Q&A at the end
• In-person meetups (or possibly a world or USA tour seminars) w/ Q&A at the end
• 5-10 day silent retreat in person w/ a group of members (w/ or w/out Q&A sessions)
• 5-10 day retreat by yourself... but w/ online live video Q&A sessions daily (or only some days) at the end of each day to answer questions/concerns from members who need proper pointing/guidance during their retreat

Yes, I have, but all of that takes precious time and energy that I could put towards shooting more videos, creating more courses, and writing books.

I might do some of those things in the future, but it's not a high priority.

The problem with meeting people in person is that it's a lot of hassle and my reach becomes very small.

[Scholar]

How can you say that enlightenment is not an experience? If it is not experienced, how would you possibly know about it, talk about it and describe it?

Why does it seem, from an outsiders perspective, like enlightenment is very easily explained by understanding it as different mind-systems being altered and thus creating the perceptions like Godhood?

How do we know Naive Realism is not true to some relevant extend?

Why has it not been proven that an enlightened person can access information outside of it's own limited consciousness, like understanding the nature of reality in verifiable ways?

How can we differentiate between what is Absolute Truth and what is simply a perception like any other? How can we know which aspects are aspects of the limited consciousness mind, and the All-Mind? For example, how do we know that the perception of a plant being conscious, like some report, is not a psychological phenomena rather than a non-dual phenomenon? How do we know it is not simply the perception of personhood, which we perceive when our mind believes to experience a living person, is not simply manipulated into perceiving the plant as person, and thus give it the perception of being conscious?

The same question can be asked for the perception of self-idenity being altered to encompass other objects within ones own consciousness, for example other people or animals. How do we know that the sense that one is all of them is not simply limited to the mind-construct, rather than an inaccessable outside world?

How can we know there is no outside world if it would, if it did exist, be inherently inaccessible?

Why is it that all the aspects all teachers of spirituality talk about could have been predicted by having enough knowledge of the mind-structure in general and how the perception fo reality is structured in the human mind?

For example, with the knowledge that the mind requires to generated a self-idenity so that it can effectively navigate reality and survive, is it quite obvious that dissolving that self-idenity will lead to feelings of meaning, joy and love because the Survival Idenity which was previously in charge of idenitifying when it was appropriate to experience love, joy and meaning would suddenly let the feelings freely arise as there would be no limiting factor that would keep it from happening?

And again, how can we then know that these particular aspects, that many talk about, like God being All Loving, etc, are not merely confusions arising due to perceptions having changed rather than any truth having been revealed?

What would you say if someone who experienced all you have, would claim he had deeper understanding than you and tell you that you were fundamentally wrong about God, and that it was a complete delusion?

Is it no likely that once the survival self idenity is dissolved, that seeking the factual truth might not be desired anymore and thus lead one to be more gullible due to open-mindedness, or simply not caring whether one is wrong or not because one believes to be eternal?

 

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Scholar

[SunnyNewDay]

1 hour ago, Aakash said:

@SunnyNewDay life itself is the blessing ? What more could you ask for. It’s a miracle even any of this is happening and there is much much much much more out there that you wouldn’t even believe ? and neither would absolute infinity. ??‍♂️ Absolute infinity is a baby in love with himself, he choose to design things the way he wanted with his free will given to him. Truth is an interesting thing. It never brings any safeties. Even if that means you have to trade your life for a chance to zoom across god and see it all for yourself without your human parents. And re-live trillions and trillions of life times just to see it. ?? 

Life is like a beach party, some decide to play volleyball, some decide to surf, some decide to build sandcastles. It’s absolute free will. 

Keep in mind you're saying this to a person going through a lot of personal issues and is terrified to open up about them (I'm trying to and am proud of the steps I've taken). I do feel life is a blessing though but all the spiritual stuff and the lifetimes stuff is just scary and bogus to me and my problems. It isn't necessary to even think about for my own healing. This is actually I'm talking about in my last post. I can see this making people turn away from spirituality. It certainly has tested mine.

[SunnyNewDay]

1 hour ago, cetus56 said:

@SunnyNewDay Excellent point you make. Maybe hopes of a Sunny New Day is unrealistic.

I didn't meant to make anything sound unrealistic. I think most people are looking for more peace and acceptance in their lives (I sure am). Just that people turn to spirituality for different things and many people just aren't ready to contemplate or consider endgame stuff and bring up all sorts of other spiritual related emotional problems when they are just looking to find some peace and resolution in their lives for their real life problems. 

[cetus]

@SunnyNewDay This is why I say cosmic consciousness or a sense of universal oneness should come first before the pursuite of ultimate Truth.

[SunnyNewDay]

1 minute ago, cetus56 said:

@SunnyNewDay This is why I say cosmic consciousness or a sense of universal oneness should come first before the pursuite of ultimate Truth.

I think even before that should come a sense of safety/acceptance/love being oneself and trust in one's good qualities. Basically all the fundamental building blocks of good mental health like good self esteem, hope/faith, a quite mind, self love etc. I'm into spirituality to strengthen these qualities in me and work through my problems. Stuff that's more abstract and I feel doesn't relate to me or is really theoretical and complex I think is a distraction for my path right now and I'm sure many people can relate to what I'm saying. 

[cetus]

@SunnyNewDay Again excellent insight.

[SunnyNewDay]

Just now, cetus56 said:

@SunnyNewDay Again excellent insight.

Thank you

[cetus]

@SunnyNewDay And your quite correct that most of the "spiritual" mumbo jumbo that happens only serves as a distraction for some.

[Key Elements]

@Leo GuraI heard this from others, and I'm also drawing from my own experience:

If you induce your own awakening using a strong method, your awakening won't be as meaningful in a profound way. It's supposed to guide you through life because it's totally aligned with your life. Your ego would be awe inspired to see how much it aligns with your personal life. For instance, my bro, after he passed away, came back and told me in a non-verbal way that I already had my awakening. This is going to be incredibly hard to explain in a post because it's long and not easy to explain. So, like I said, I will do the showing in my life purpose. However, let me just say that if I used a strong method, such as psychedelics, between the time that my awakening happened and seeing my bro after his death, I bet I wouldn't be able to see my bro, and my life would have gone in a different trajectory. I might not have realized I had an awakening in the first place. I probably will not be interested in non-duality at all. I don't know how to put this into a question. I can only briefly say it here. You may totally misunderstand what I say. I'm definitely going to express the whole story out in my life purpose.

[Leo Gura]

@Vignesh Pagadala Name one thing which isn't highly grounded in subjectivity.

[cetus]

@Key Elements For whatever it's worth I was into spirituality in my mid to late 20's then got married had two children and spirituality took a back seat to family life. Then the wife passed suddenly at the age of 40. That's one reason I'm here today. Maybe in a way I'm reaching out in hopes of reconnecting with her through spirituality. She can no longer be here. That is done.  But maybe I could meet her not in physical terms but on her terms. It's said that the self is an illusion. But I know somehow we shall meet again.

[Forestluv]

@Key Elements I had a profound experience with my deceased sister. This was a sober experience, yet if I hadn’t had done psychedelics previously, I doubt I would have met her. 

[Key Elements]

@cetus56 @Serotoninluv when my awakening happened, and later in life I saw my deceased bro, both times I thought they were just dreams. I only thought, "oh, what wonderful dreams that seemed so beyond lifelike!"

My bro left clues in my future. My bro died when he was 18; we were 3 and a half years apart. Years later, after I got married, and my children grew up into their teen years, we rented an apartment in India, and I realized that this was the place I met him. When I entered the apartment for the first time, I noticed it was the exact same apartment where there were the same furnitures arranged in the exact same ways. During my stay here, there were profound indications that pointed out that I already had an awakening. I won't get into it here. It's for my life purpose. I'm not going to squander this experience. I don't believe this can be induced by any methods.

[cetus]

12 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

My bro left clues in my future.

@Key Elements This gave me a premonition about the future. Our daughter is expecting her first child and there there will be clues surrounding the birth.

[cetus]

When the people we Love pass away we feel as if they have left us. But in truth it is us that have left them.