Objections To Spirituality Mega-Thread

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, Truthority said:

It also seems that you are not actively engaging in any form of public feedback outside your community, no interviews, no debates, no dialogue, no podcasts. Why?

Because I'd have a hard time finding anyone who would understand or appreciate the depth of the things I want to say, so I just focus on buliding my body of work.

The stuff I want to say will only be understood by one in a million people. Who is gonna interview me? Who knows which questions to ask? How many hours would the interview need to be to convey the things I want conveyed?

It would largely be a waste of my time.

Rather than waiting for the right person to ask me things, I just say the right things straight to your face and cut out the middle man.

[Dimi]

❤️?

Edited August 3, 2019 by Dimi
never mind

[abrakamowse]

What's your definition of direct experience? Because buddhist and hinduism say that direct experience is the only way to see "truth" or "what is".

But I heard also that enlightenment is a non-experience. How can I have an experience of a non-experience?

Is that possible?

[8Ball]

Here are some of the objections I've had:

- Isn't all of this stuff rather impractical for society at large? What good of use could you possibly be when you meditate all day long?

- Aren't psychedelic insights just based upon who we are as a person and what we're interested in? If a spiritual person gains spiritual insights, and a recreational user simply gets a fun, hallucinatory trip, isn't that proof that a psychedelic trip happens BECAUSE of us, and not TO US?

- Why should I waste years of my life meditating, when I don't even know if I'll ever be enlightened? After all, some people might meditate for 40 years without being enlightened. Is it worth it? (This is a huge objection in my opinion)

- If I take a picture of the moon, I'll get a picture of the moon. Isn't that proof that stuff exists independent of a concious observer?

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, 8Ball said:

Aren't psychedelic insights just based upon who we are as a person and what we're interested in? If a spiritual person gains spiritual insights, and a recreational user simply gets a fun, hallucinatory trip, isn't that proof that a psychedelic trip happens BECAUSE of us, and not TO US?

Haha

Let me rephrase your question back to you in a way that you can relate to:

Aren't scientific experiments based on what we're interested in? So if a serious scientist makes a discovery in the lab, and some kid is just dicking around in the lab and simply gets a fun, erroneous result, isn't that proof that science happens BECAUSE of us, and not TO US?

[Leo Gura]

51 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

What's your definition of direct experience? Because buddhist and hinduism say that direct experience is the only way to see "truth" or "what is".

But I heard also that enlightenment is a non-experience. How can I have an experience of a non-experience?

Is that possible?

Name one thing which isn't in your direct experience.

I dare you.

Realize this: there is nothing but direct experience. Nor can there be.

[cetus]

If someone where perfectly content with their life just as it is why would they need to pursue spirituality when it could possably turn their life unsidedown? If it ain't broke, why would one need to fix it?

 

[Leo Gura]

@cetus56 The desire for Truth and understanding is independent of suffering or the quality of one's life.

You can desire to know a thing simply for the sake of knowing it, not because it will benefit your survival.

For example, you can have a desire to look inside a kangaroo's pouch even if doesn't benefit you in any material way.

And who knows? Maybe you'll find a diamond in there

[8Ball]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Haha

Let me rephrase your question back to you in a way that you can relate to:

Aren't scientific experiments based on what we're interested in? So if a serious scientist makes a discovery in the lab, and some kid is just dicking around in the lab and simply gets a fun, erroneous result, isn't that proof that science happens BECAUSE of us, and not TO US?

Touche

[cetus]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@cetus56

For example, you can have a desire to look inside a kangaroos asshole even if doesn't benefit you in any material way.

But what if you were to peek under God's brilliantly white robe only to discover he's wearing a thong?

[Leo Gura]

@cetus56 You mean a banana hammock?

[cetus]

@Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

God:

[Key Elements]

13 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

But what if you were to peek under God's brilliantly white robe only to discover he's wearing a thong?

That's the wrong place to look for the Holy Grail. Think about what these metaphors really mean. Truth hurts.

[cetus]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

God:

Didn't recognize him at first (being on his vacation and just hanging out) but yea that's God. 

[abrakamowse]

55 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Realize this: there is nothing but direct experience. Nor can there be.

So, enlightenment is an experience too?

[Key Elements]

@Leo Guraum...nice pic??

God in ego form? That's not even how the ox's tail looks like. Might be confusing ppl. 

[SunnyNewDay]

51 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

If someone where perfectly content with their life just as it is why would they need to pursue spirituality when it could possably turn their life unsidedown? If it ain't broke, why would one need to fix it?

 

Very true, also the reverse... why open up all this spiritual stuff if you're a person just trying to understand, forgive and move on from some problems in your life? It's overwhelming and a lot of stuff I find on here to be actually unnecessary or even a bit harmful more than helpful for this goal. Thing is there are a lot of techniques and help in spirituality that I think many people turn to due to their personal issues. 

[cetus]

22 minutes ago, SunnyNewDay said:

Very true, also the reverse... why open up all this spiritual stuff if you're a person just trying to understand, forgive and move on from some problems in your life? It's overwhelming and a lot of stuff I find on here to be actually unnecessary or even a bit harmful more than helpful for this goal. Thing is there are a lot of techniques and help in spirituality that I think many people turn to due to their personal issues. 

@SunnyNewDay Excellent point you make. Maybe hopes of a Sunny New Day is unrealistic.

[AlldayLoop]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Because I'd have a hard time finding anyone who would understand or appreciate the depth of the things I want to say, so I just focus on buliding my body of work.

The stuff I want to say will only be understood by one in a million people. Who is gonna interview me? Who knows which questions to ask? How many hours would the interview need to be to convey the things I want conveyed?

It would largely be a waste of my time.

Rather than waiting for the right person to ask me things, I just say the right things straight to your face and cut out the middle man.

Have you considered doing any of the following?:

• Online live video webinars w/ one-on-one live Q&A at the end
• In-person meetups (or possibly a world or USA tour seminars) w/ Q&A at the end
• 5-10 day silent retreat in person w/ a group of members (w/ or w/out Q&A sessions)
• 5-10 day retreat by yourself... but w/ online live video Q&A sessions daily (or only some days) at the end of each day to answer questions/concerns from members who need proper pointing/guidance during their retreat