Leo What is your opinion on trip killers?

[krockerman]

have you had any terror trips @Leo Gura

i don’t want to use these kinds of pills because 1 hard to get 2 addictive

[Leo Gura]

I would not use them.

The whole point of the trip is to face whatever comes up.

If your protocol is sound, you shouldn't need them.

But then again, if you're the sort of person who might freak out and do something dangerous like jump off a 20 story balcony, then you might want to have some laying around.

But even just having them around will change your trip. Your tripping will be sloppy because in the back of your mind you will know that if things get serious you can escape. This can lead you to second guessing yourself and treating tripping too lightly.

There's an important aspect of tripping where you know that once you've taken the substance, that's it -- you're all in. There's no escape. This helps the surrender process. It also helps you to think twice before tripping because you understand the gravity of the situation. This is no toy or joke.

I would rather not have an escape hatch. But that's me. You might be different.

To me, a large part of the growth I get from tripping is the seriousness of it. It's not a toy to me. And of course I learned this lesson the hard way: by going through some rough trips in the beginning. But I'm glad I did.

[Forestluv]

@krockerman I think it’s better starting with a very low dose and working your way than it is starting with a high dose and a trip killer. If you start with a low dose and work your way up, you will be gaining insights and experience and it will likely be a smoother process than starting with high doses and killing trips. . . Another option is to have a trip sitter to help relax anxiety and paranoia if it arises. I think the dynamics of a trip sitter for newbies is better than a trip killer. If this option is available and you go this route, I would choose a sitter with experience of a variety of trips. Not some nervous Nellie that will freak out at the first sign of trouble - that would make things worse.

I had Etizolam available on a few of my early trips. Just having it available gave a sense of calmness. Yet to be honest, I always forgot I had it during the trip and worked through things. The only time I remembered was during an Ayahuasca trip that got intense. Yet there was astringent message not to take it and work through things, which I did. That’s just me, others are different.

[krockerman]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I would not use them.

The whole point of the trip is to face whatever comes up.

If your protocol is sound, you shouldn't need them.

But then again, if you're the sort of person who might freak out and do something dangerous like jump off a 20 story balcony, then you might want to have some laying around.

But even just having them around will change your trip. Your tripping will be sloppy because in the back of your mind you will know that if things get serious you can escape. This can lead you to second guessing yourself and treating tripping too lightly.

There's an important aspect of tripping where you know that once you've taken the substance, that's it -- you're all in. There's no escape. This helps the surrender process. It also helps you to think twice before tripping because you understand the gravity of the situation. This is no toy or joke.

I would rather not have an escape hatch. But that's me. You might be different.

To me, a large part of the growth I get from tripping is the seriousness of it. It's not a toy to me. And of course I learned this lesson the hard way: by going through some rough trips in the beginning. But I'm glad I did.

No i would not do that. But i don’t want PTSD. Some terror trips might cause PTSD. 

[pluto]

Challenging trips are the best teachers.

[krockerman]

30 minutes ago, pluto said:

Challenging trips are the best teachers.

Note this is not about challenging trips. This is terror trips we are talking about. Challenging trips are Very imoprtant. Terror trips can cause PTSD

[Aaron p]

On my 350 ug LSD trip (which I don't usually use phycs yet, I wanted to build a natural foundation the first year), I waited until the peak and started telling all of the demons to come out and face me. It actually felt quite good to face them. Although, I felt shite the next day. Starting to feel like I can feel reality dying around me, like a muscle that is lacking in nutrition and blood/oxygen. Feels pretty shit tbh, but sure it'll be worth it in the end. Gonna start taking my 5meo. I actually was thinking about trip killers recently to, coincidence.

[SunnyNewDay]

I agree with the trip sitter route and doing it in a safe space. Do it with really experienced psychadelic users who won't inject their own narrative over the experience but instead will hold neutral space and be supportive. I think mixing substances like this is untested and not a risk worth taking when most of the risks can be mitigated through a safe space and a good facilitator. 

[Aeris]

I agree with the master guru on the subject.

The whole work is fighting. Escape is not a solution.

[Rigel]

1 hour ago, Aeris said:

The whole work is fighting

I prefer surrendering

[Nahm]

6 hours ago, krockerman said:

Note this is not about challenging trips. This is terror trips we are talking about. Challenging trips are Very imoprtant. Terror trips can cause PTSD

 There’s no getting around that is your distinctIon, which wouldn’t be in a deep enough trip. 

[Leo Gura]

You should not get PTSD if you dose properly and reasonably.

PTSD comes from overdosing.

Careful, gradual dosing is critical in this work.

Don't just double your doses willy nilly or eyeball doses like many fools do.

[pluto]

18 hours ago, krockerman said:

Note this is not about challenging trips. This is terror trips we are talking about. Challenging trips are Very imoprtant. Terror trips can cause PTSD

If your mind is undisciplined to experience that degree of illusion then you should not do psychedelics to begin with. Focus on meditation for a few years and get yourself to a more balanced level where you have a generally sound understanding of the true nature of reality, your true nature.

There are no shortcuts to Freedom.