Why do you believe that subjective experiences give direct insight into reality

[Maya_0]

Why does Leo and people here believe that subjective experience gives insight into reality and "Truth".

 

All we can say for sure about experience is that it is experience. So why do people believe that we can extrapolate from an experience and make claims about what is ontologically true about reality?

[Consilience]

Because reality is literally subjective experience 

Notice the only way for reality to ever “be” to an individual is through direct, subjective experience. That’s all that has ever existed for you and all that could ever exist. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Consilience

[Nahm]

@Maya_0 What’s your other option?

[Aakash]

What else is an experience besides a subjective Experience of reality. Therefore how can the two be seperate ? What you see is what you know. And what you know is what you see. 

If I see an insight with my own experience that is an ah ha moment about what seeing that which is for what it is and not that which it is not 

which only comes after having no experience and therefore it’s objective and not subjective reality. Beliefs vs insight. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Aakash

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Maya_0 said:

All we can say for sure about experience is that it is experience.

Actually, this is false!

Experience is not experience. The very notion of experience is dualistic and corrupted by ego.

There is truly no such thing as experience. What you consider experience is a conceptual fabrication. What's really there is not experience but Being. This is not just a semantic difference. On this hinges everything.

Right now you are confused, mistaking Absolute Truth for this thing you invented and call "experience." In this way you are maintaining the fantasy that you were born. Your very life depends on not properly understanding what experience is.

Your mind will not allow you understand what I am saying here. Because if you understood what I'm saying here your entire reality would collapse and you'd have a mental breakdown.

You assume you are a biological creature inside a physical space having experiences. This is false. You have imagined: biology, space, time, experience, and your self.

Enlightenment is NOT a subjective experience. Enlightenment is the realization of Absolute Truth. At the moment of enlightenment you literally stop being a biological creature in a physical space. Because in that moment you realize that all of that is imaginary.

You literally break out of "physical reality". For the first time you see reality as it truly is. You escape The Matrix.

Imagine that your whole life has been lived inside a cartoon. And then one day you realize: "OH MY GOD! I am just a cartoon character!!!!" This means that all of science was part of the cartoon. So you cannot use science at that point to ground yourself any more. You realize that science is a hallucination.

Don't underestimate how radical this is. It is as serious as getting shot in the head. You are going to perceive it as extremely threatening.

[zeroISinfinity]

@Nahmyour previous Avatar looked better. Sorry no other option but subjectivity. ?

Jokes aside imagination is still a perspective mind can hook up and create another conceptual worldviews. While Being simply is. 

Nature of Being, helluva story. ❤️?

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[Joseph Maynor]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Experience is not experience. The very notion of experience is dualistic and corrupted by ego.

You could take experience to be the Actual too.  This is why Metaphysics breaks down regarding attempts to capture Being like a butterfly in a net.  What is that which takes?  Is it not the Mind?

Edited August 2, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[abrakamowse]

Experience is the best way to call it. But it is not really an experience. You will know it's true. And you will know because it will shock your whole sense of self, your whole world will collapse and if you are not ready for it you will scream like crazy as if a fucking nuts psychopath is following you with a chainsaw to cut you into little pieces.

In reality enlightenment is a non event. A non experience. They call it "direct experience" as a pointer but experiences will lead you only to more experiences.

The finger pointing to the moon.

Edited August 2, 2019 by abrakamowse

[Howard]

Experiences and perceptions are within the realms of cause and effect (time and space). How else are you going get insight into ultimate reality, which is “outside” the realm of cause and effect (time and space)?

 

Without using a mirror, can an eyeball see itself? Or after seeing enough things “out there”, you come to a finding that it’s the eyeball that’s allowing it to see. So realization isn’t about the eyeball seeing something spectacular within its field of vision, but realizing it is itself that allows it to see.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Howard

[Gili Trawangan]

The problem with the word experience is that it implies an experiencer. The truth gets corrupted right then and there.

[Truth Addict]

6 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Maya_0 What’s your other option?

Mine is belief. I worked it out both ways, and they both are actually the same thing. Everything breaks down in the presence of God.

 

[Truth Addict]

7 hours ago, Maya_0 said:

Why does Leo and people here believe that subjective experience gives insight into reality and "Truth".

All we can say for sure about experience is that it is experience. So why do people believe that we can extrapolate from an experience and make claims about what is ontologically true about reality?

Good questions.

Because they're not conscious of the absolute truth.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Truth Addict

[abrakamowse]

I AM the truth

[Nahm]

@abrakamowse ?

[abrakamowse]

@Nahm

[Nahm]

4 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

Mine is belief. I worked it out both ways, and they both are actually the same thing. Everything breaks down in the presence of God.

 

Ya, careful what you say though. There are some Truth Addicts out there that would disagree. 

@zeroISinfinity I’m avatar lazy right now. Lol. It’s a stage.    And ya, that’s a doozy...“Nature of Being” & Nature of Being. MF>♥️?

[winterknight]

12 hours ago, Maya_0 said:

All we can say for sure about experience is that it is experience. So why do people believe that we can extrapolate from an experience and make claims about what is ontologically true about reality?

You're right. No ontological claims can be truly made. Nor need they be. Only the attachment to currently-held, unconscious, and unexamined ontological claims (namely, that "I am a person") needs to be broken. 

[Truth Addict]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

Ya, careful what you say though. There are some Truth Addicts out there that would disagree.

So what if everyone disagrees? They'd all be wrong 

God told me to not care what the devils say 

[Aaron p]

On 8/2/2019 at 0:59 AM, Maya_0 said:

Why does Leo and people here believe that subjective experience gives insight into reality and "Truth".

 

All we can say for sure about experience is that it is experience. So why do people believe that we can extrapolate from an experience and make claims about what is ontologically true about reality?

@Maya_0 everything is occuring within your subjective consciousness. And the idea that certain things can exist exterior to your perception, is also...within your perception. Also the idea that other people have consciousness (just like you) is another an idea that is occurring only within your consciousness. And the idea that this is false, is also an idea occurring within...your consciousness. See how you cant escape this?

[Guru Fat Bastard]

Thoughts,sensations,perceptions are subjective experiences to a subjective,believed idea and/or conception called  "me". In reality, there is no "me" to be the subject of experience. There's only "what is", not happening to... no one.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Guru Fat Bastard