Is a good period of high mood and excitement, must be followed by period of opposite

[Nivsch]

mood later?

I don't mean to just going downward back to the zero point, because this is obvious (if you go up you will later go down).

I mean to a NEGATIVE wave.

Is such a wave really must come after a positive wave in one's mood, that one will have to pay all the mood-debt EXACTLY to the point (that he has acumulated during the high-mood period)?

Its a question that I ask. I dont know if its really true. I want to know what do you think.

For example: say I had a very positive week of "+4" mood. Is that means, that I will SURELY have, later, an opposite period which in, i'll must pay all the mood debt? (to the point!) and therefore I will have:

A week of "-4" mood (medium-high but short depression).

Or two weeks of "-2" mood (low to moderate depression/anxiety/etc).

Or A month of "-1" in average (uncomfortable mood but Lite).

Or a more complex form of payments spreading.

Which in the sum of all its parts, will be exactly equal and equivalent to "-4", in such a way that in average, in the long run (let's say couple of years) the average mood must be very very close to 0 (or to the long-run thermostat that you have which have to rise slowely within the years, if you are really developing).

Does our mood really work like that? Or do you think it works different to what I wrote?

What do you think?

Another example: 2 months of more excitement and 'butterflies' than usual, but after that... a period of payoff that in the end of the day will offset it accurately.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Nivsch

[Howard]

I could see this logic for Ecsasy/MDMA consumption or someone with bi-polar.

 

And I do think there is some truth to what you are saying, but I don't think it's fully correct. For sure, that extreme excited mood doesn't last forever.

 

I see it more like, if an experience can make you a certain level of happy, there is an experience that can make you the same level of miserable.

 

For example, if getting into a relationship can make you feel a certain mood, getting out if it will make you feel the exact same opposite.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Howard

[JustThinkingAloud]

No, usually when you have a happy episode it slowly subsides into nothing not into negative and that’s if you don’t revive it but we naturally keep reviving it. I think that in your case it could be fear of losing happiness that kicks in right after you get happy. You can’t lose happy moments or memories, they stay with you forever and every time you recall those memories the feeling comes with it, there’s no need to be scared that you lose them. You can even recreate them because you were able to do it once so you have the skill to do it again.

[loub]

this seems to be a very clear description of the "upper limit problem".

in short it comes into play as some sort of self-sabotage as one reaches higher levels of satisfaction and fulfillment than he fundamentally believes himself to be worthy of, in order to come back to the familiar and comfortable level of fulfillment.

to play into your analogy: if your happiness and fulfillment always equal out to zero, how high can you allow for that zero to be for yourself?

notice that there are no physical limitations to feeling fulfilled, creative and loving. I highly recommend the book "the big leap"by Gay Hendricks

[Commodent]

Emotions are a vast spectrum, and you can experience multiple emotions at the same time. No emotion is inherently worse than any other. It's not a "scale" extending from +5 to -5, it's a palette. There is so much beauty in sadness, grief, even anger, but most people fail to see that because they see it as "negative" and thus they resist it. They don't want to look at it. See, the goal is not to feel happy all the time, as that is only one color in you palette. The goal is to reduce inner friction and attain an openness to ALL experience, whether it be "good" or "bad". That is true liberation.

[hamedsf]

this doesn't apply for the emotional mastery achieved after an enlightenment.

but yes, two sides of spectrum are far from each other but when you reach the end of spectrum it begins from the other side abruptly (YING AND YANG) 

It's said that the darkest moment of night is just right before the dawn 

so this applies to our emotional system too. 

[Truth Addict]

No. It doesn't work that way.

Think of it like health and illness. Health represents feeling good, and illness represents feeling bad.

99% of creation is perfectly healthy, so the natural state is feeling good most if not all of the time. Humans developed an illness, which is confusing the map for the territory, or in other words, misplacement of parts of reality and confusing parts for some other parts by using thought. This illness is what creates suffering for the ordinary people.

So, in order to feel good, one has to view things as they actually are and stop buying into illusion. (by raising awareness).

How? Meditation.

[Nivsch]

6 hours ago, Commodent said:

Emotions are a vast spectrum, and you can experience multiple emotions at the same time. No emotion is inherently worse than any other. It's not a "scale" extending from +5 to -5, it's a palette. There is so much beauty in sadness, grief, even anger, but most people fail to see that because they see it as "negative" and thus they resist it. They don't want to look at it. See, the goal is not to feel happy all the time, as that is only one color in you palette. The goal is to reduce inner friction and attain an openness to ALL experience, whether it be "good" or "bad". That is true liberation.

After almost 3 years of mindfulness and meditation its still feels terrible during the bad periods. Like living in a cage. Fortunately its much better today than 3 years ago (bacause the negative waves are much shorter) but still when there is an attack of intrusive tough or feeling - it is still feels very hard at the moment.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Nivsch

[Commodent]

@Nivsch  What do you feel caged in from experiencing? What is this "caged" feeling telling you to do? I can certainly relate to that feeling. It's a push towards liberation. Liberation from techniques, ideologies, fixations of any "correct" way to be or feel etc. It's an invitation to be who you are.

Whenever I get this feeling I focus on regaining my grounding and getting in touch with my authentic feelings. I breathe deeply, write in my journal about what I'm feeling, go for a walk and otherwise just do the things that I enjoy doing. I also take a break from any self-help and meditation, as too much of that easily makes me lose touch with my grounding. Particularly Leo's teachings tends to pull a lot of energy to the head. That is not a bad thing though, that's just the nature of his teachings. It just requires an equally strong energy in the opposite direction (towards the ground) in order to mantain balance.

[Leo Gura]

The whole point of true happiness is not to base it on mood.

Imagine being happy even when you're in a bad mood. That's real happiness. And it's not easy to develop because our ideas of happiness are so mood based and survival based. Those ideas require deep deconstruction. You have to deeply grok that attachments to physical things and even emotional states always create suffering -- sometimes gross suffering, but sometimes very subtle suffering.

This was a core teaching of the Buddha. And it's a very important point which people overlook. Outwitting suffering is something only a master can do. Suffering is extremely sneaky! Because it's central to your survival. You must literally transcend the entire survival drive to access true happiness.

Awakening allows for superhuman levels of happiness.

[Alexop]

Interesting point of view, what comes up must come down. But I feel it applies only inside this world of dualities, I think when you break out, you`ll see the bad times as good times also, haha. Don`t rush into spirituality if you`re not ready. I admit that I am not ready, I try to embody green and yellow, I feel I`m  not ready yet for full steam ahead spirituality. I meditate daily though.

[JustThinkingAloud]

Maybe there’s a cost involved. What do you have to do to have the high? If it costs you too much or you have to sacrifice too much then yes, you have to pay for it. Also, if you strongly believe that you’ll pay for it by feeling bad after, you will. You will talk yourself into feeling bad just to prove yourself right.

[Nivsch]

On 1.8.2019 at 10:24 PM, Leo Gura said:

Imagine being happy even when you're in a bad mood. That's real happiness.

Almost never happened to me. Maybe to a few seconds.

But in the base state of how the mood works (without the accumulated effect of the spiritual training. Say i have not trained meditation ever) it works like I wrote at the topic starting message? What do you think?

Last days I had an insight about the meditation and I started to do it in a new way in a very smooth form of "watching". I even dont know how to explain it it feels like a new ability that I have not had before in the 3 years I train. Hope it will help

Edited August 3, 2019 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

Generally speaking, if mood goes up, it must come down. And since its all relative, you will perceive any drop in mood from its peak as a terrible thing.

Your mind cannot evaluate absolute values of mood, only relative changes. So to jump from 50 to 100 and then back down to 50 is perceived the same as dropping from 50 to 0.

[Nivsch]

On 4.8.2019 at 2:54 AM, Leo Gura said:

Generally speaking, if mood goes up, it must come down. And since its all relative, you will perceive any drop in mood from its peak as a terrible thing.

Your mind cannot evaluate absolute values of mood, only relative changes. So to jump from 50 to 100 and then back down to 50 is perceived the same as dropping from 50 to 0.

Quite amazing...

So when it get down I will interprate this like a very bad feeling, and your mind will disguise it to any content it want (fear of something or low self esteem or think that you are not loved enough or any other escuse) to show you that you are down. Thats what happening to me.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

On 2.8.2019 at 3:08 AM, JustThinkingAloud said:

Maybe there’s a cost involved. What do you have to do to have the high? If it costs you too much or you have to sacrifice too much then yes, you have to pay for it. Also, if you strongly believe that you’ll pay for it by feeling bad after, you will. You will talk yourself into feeling bad just to prove yourself right.

That the point that i dont think it will get that down again because i believe i beyone it and i  have learned and every time I surprised again when the down comes.

[Nivsch]

On 1.8.2019 at 10:21 PM, Commodent said:

@Nivsch  It just requires an equally strong energy in the opposite direction (towards the ground) in order to mantain balance.

Thats what i think turquoise is. The yang of the actualized yin. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

On 1.8.2019 at 4:39 PM, hamedsf said:

this doesn't apply for the emotional mastery achieved after an enlightenment.

but yes, two sides of spectrum are far from each other but when you reach the end of spectrum it begins from the other side abruptly (YING AND YANG) 

It's said that the darkest moment of night is just right before the dawn 

so this applies to our emotional system too. 

? I think that maybe more mindfulness in the good days is nessesary in order to take the good waves in proportion and than the bad waves will shrink (hope that...)  

[JustThinkingAloud]

@Nivsch  Both the good and the bad emotion are from a different source. Explore your mind to find the source of the bad feeling. What thoughts, memories, actions etc trigger the bad emotion? It’s much easier to fix it when you know where it’s actually coming from.

[Nivsch]

20 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Two useful videos I think might be up your alley:

 

Great video of Teal thank you (the second I didnt hear yet). Even though I believe she is quite right, how can I know she didn't just rationalized a wishful thinking she has?

And what does it mean "high/low vibration"? Does It mean high/low flexibility in thinking?

All the high spiritual words don't help, actually do the opposite and reduce the reliability of what she tried to say.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Nivsch