Thought is Never Now

[Aakash]

@system the same question goes to you, 

what happens when the thoughts are that from god himsel. Are they worth thinking or not and giving power to. (Your own personal authority) 

[pluto]

56 minutes ago, system said:

Actually you can never left the now. You are always in the now. You are the now. I understand what you refer to, but that doesn't mean you can't watch the thoughts while at the same time being in the now (which is we're always doing). See, this kind of thinking just creates duality. 

It's necessary to see the power of thoughts in order to flow above them and what you're saying is a good practical point that leads 'you' to transcend the power of thoughts.

There are no thoughts in the absolute now, there cannot be thoughts in absolute stillness. True nowness is thoughtlessness.

Its pure "beingness", "isness" its beyond thought.

[Preetom]

1 hour ago, Aakash said:

@Preetom  but one must ask himself, it is not okay for humans to think as it is not truth. 

What if god was himself the one thinking ? Was it truth or not ? 

 

1 hour ago, Aakash said:

@system the same question goes to you, 

what happens when the thoughts are that from god himsel. Are they worth thinking or not and giving power to. (Your own personal authority) 

what's the difference between you and the medieval corrupt, deluded christian authorities who owned the entire society by playing as the advocates of god and thus presenting them as the absolute authority?

Stop playing advocate of God. If God wanna say something, let him/her appear and tell it. You or me or anyone don't have to defend God. That only insults god and shows what a fickle thing it is.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Preetom

[Aakash]

@Preetom yeah even I’m growing tired of not being able to know absolute truth. 

Alright I guess that’s time then  

also I was talking about you as god not a seperate god 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Aakash

[Preetom]

4 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Preetom 

also I was talking about you as god not a seperate god 

what god?

I am I

Period

?

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Preetom said:

But Leo!

You already explained it in your how to become enlightened video.

Every thought has 2 aspects.

1) Its reality

2) its content/story/projection

The Reality of a thought is direct consciousness being right now.

The content of a thought is its projection which subsequently creates this story of time, space, causality, personhood instantaneously if it is believed.

That's right.

This thread contains a lot of people talking past one another. We have to be careful in how we define our terms and how we use different mental schemes to explain the unexplainable.

I am not really contradicting Spira or Tolle. I'm just challenging folks here to see the other side of the coin: all thoughts happen now and only now.

The problem is that thoughts are so sneaky they mesmerize you into an illusory conceptual world. This is what is meant when people say that thoughts take you out of the now. They don't actually take you out of the now because now is all there is. But subjectively they entrance you. It's like getting lost in a day dream.

Also want to challenge people here to not dismiss thoughts or mind as bad. The Absolute Now can certainly contain thoughts. Otherwise how could thoughts exist???

Elimination of thought is not strictly necessary to be in the now. Newbies commonly get the wrong idea about thought and mind, as if it is an evil that must be eradicated. I wanted to challenge that.

[RendHeaven]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Elimination of thought is not strictly necessary to be in the now. Newbies commonly get the wrong idea about thought and mind, as if it is an evil that must be eradicated. I wanted to challenge that.

It's even trickier because academics that build their lives around the construction and maintenance of thought-stories need to be taught (if Truth is their goal) that thoughts are limited.

E.g., a philosophy major who has a genuine intuition for Truth-seeking but is lost in reading Kant and Nietzsche needs to temporarily adopt a "get rid of thoughts" mentality to reach the next level of development.

If you swooped in at that moment and informed him that there is no need to eradicate thoughts, it will be very easy for this person to twist that teaching such that he can let his thought-stories about "the truth" survive.

[Leo Gura]

@RendHeaven Sure, if one is lost in thoughts then such a teaching is necessary.

But then the pendulum swings to the opposite extreme where the spiritual seeker turns anti-intellectual, rejecting the mind entirely without realizing that God can speak directly through one's mind using thoughts, images, language, and even as entire manuscripts.

Most people fail to appreciate that God knows all languages in the entire universe. God is using your mind to manifest itself. Since it is formless it needs a limited formed vehicle to express itself. Mind and speech is God.

The only question is: How pure is the vehicle through which God speaks?

How pure is your vehicle? How much is your ego getting in the way?

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm just challenging folks here to see the other side of the coin: all thoughts happen now and only now.

Is there also another side of the coin? The idea that thoughts “happen” now and only now can bring the mind’s attention to the immediacy of now. Yet upon even further inspection, doesn’t the idea that “thoughts happen now” necessitate a timeline? (albeit an extremely short timeline). A happening seems to be an appearance and disappearance within an extremely short time construct. Could this collapse into a Now of nothing, in which nothing is happening since there is no timeline to happen within?

I’m not trying to contradict the other two sides of the coin, I can see the truth in those sides.

[Aakash]

@Serotoninluv the problem with enlightenment specifically eastern traditions is they assumed there was ever a human. 

Now can be defined against a timeline as you have mentioned. 

However instead of taking the incremental measurement of now being the inbetween-ness of past and future. And all-together illusory As you know. 

Now is as I like to put it a “1 term” ... 1 term that explains the whole of reality in 1 term. Void, everything, nothing, absolute infinity, buddha, Jesus, samadhi, light, black hole, etc etc ... 

if now was just one of these “1 terms” where would the now be ? 

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Is there also another side of the coin?

The title of this thread.

[Forestluv]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The title of this thread.

My impression was people in this thread are discussing this as two sides. I see three sides:

1. Thoughts within a conventional past-now-future timeline are illusory since thoughts cannot happen in the past or future. People can be mesmerized by thoughts and become immersed into an illusory conceptual thought world of past and future. 

2. Thoughts happen now and only now

3. Thoughts never happen now because a happening would need a timeline to happen (albeit an extremely short timeline of one instant to another instant). So, thoughts don’t even happen. 

[Leo Gura]

55 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

3. Thoughts never happen now because a happening would need a timeline to happen (albeit an extremely short timeline of one instant to another instant). So, thoughts don’t even happen.

I don't really buy this.

Thoughts don't need a timeline to happen. A timeline is a thought.

Clearly thoughts happen. Otherwise what is all this thinking we're doing?

"So, thoughts don’t even happen." << that's a thought! LOL

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't really buy this.

Thoughts don't need a timeline to happen. A timeline is a thought.

Clearly thoughts happen. Otherwise what is all this thinking we're doing?

"So, thoughts don’t even happen." << that's a thought! LOL

Of course thoughts happen. As you say, otherwise what’s all this thinking we are doing?

To me, this seems like a valid perspective in 3D/4D realms. 

What is a happening?  It’s not just about thoughts. This has to do with all happenings. How can there be a happening without a Now and Not Now? Most people perceive “Not Now” as the immediate past. Even when they say “Now” they are contrasting that with an immediate past of “Not Now” - consciously or subconsciously. That is how human brains are conditioned. I’m cool saying that “Not Now” is simpler than a time construct and that calling it the immediate past is unnecessary conceptual construction. Yet even more directly, introducing a “Now” also introduces a “Not Now” that contrasts “Now”. Happenings involve a “Now” and “Not Now”. 

One side of the coin is like a still photo. The 3D aspect is maintained and the 4D aspect is removed. There is no Now and Not Now, so nothing is happening. Yet this is just one side of the coin, because in aliveness there is also Now and Not Now in 4D, which involves happenings. Yet, without the contrast of “now and not now”, there is no happening. We could have a series of still 3D images in 4D time - we would need to contrast the relative nature of two still 3D images to have a happening. 4D includes both 3D non-happenings and 4D happenings. Leveling up to so-called “5D” would include both 3D non-happenings, 4D happenings and a transcendent 5D “happenings” with new expansive potential and meaning for “happening”

I would say this is one aspect in transcending the standard 4D timeline into realms of so-called 5D, which go deeper and broader than simple happenings and non-happenings within a linear construct of time. I suppose some of these realms can be accessed within a framework of happenings, yet it would have limitations and I think the tendency would be to contextualize and try to make sense of such happenings within a more grounded 4D framework, most commonly as an experience that happened. If one simply sees happenings occurring now,  the tendency is to subconsciously assume things have happened. Most importantly that experience happened. Strictly speaking, I would say that acknowledging now happenings, without acknowledging the non-happening of those happenings, is a very subtle form of experience - “current” experience happening now.

I’m not saying the framework of “things are happening now” is false. I’m saying it is a contraction within realms/dimensions of greater depth and expansiveness.