I am very disturbed by this

[Blanchflower]

OK, I wonder if any of you guys have gone through the website, "Unveiled Secrets and Messengers of light".  Most of what they state resonates with me but there is a particular paragraph which has been intellectually disturbing me for a long time and I have not yet reached the required state of enlightenment to verify this statement. The webpage is here: https://unveiledsecretsandmessagesoflight.blogspot.com/2009/10/johnakan-ur-el-17mar2000.html

Please allow me to quote the relevant paragraph in this topic:

"Interlocutor: Another of the questions I have scheduled, is if the human spirit evolves from the unicellular animals, going through the mineral Kingdom, then the vegetable Kingdom, later on the animal Kingdom and finally as a man.

Johnakan Ur-El: The spirits embody in the whole matter of the universe, but - and this is important to clarify it-, “transmigration of the soul” doesn't exist. What exists is reincarnation of the soul, a completely different concept.

There is a tendency of Buddhism . And I spoke personally to my brother Siddhartha. which was misinterpreted.

Interlocutor: Even at the present time?

Johnakan Ur-El: Correct, the Tibetan Buddhism even at the present time keeps using it mistakenly.

The animal spirit evolves as animal. The vegetable spirit evolves as vegetable. The mineral spirit evolves as mineral. The human spirit evolves as human.

That is, it doesn't change, for example, from a goat to a man. This sounds beautiful because there is a fable that tells the story of how a goat becomes man, but reality is different.

The transmigration of the souls doesn’t exist, I repeat, but the reincarnation of the souls.

Interlocutor: The human spirit never embodied in a unicellular being , for example.

Johnakan Ur-El: No, the human spirit embodied directly in a man or a woman, and it will always evolve as a man or a woman, as well as the animal embodies in an animal and it will continue evolving as animal.

This doesn't mean an evolutionary stagnation, because the current chimpanzee is much more evolved than the chimpanzee of two million years ago..........."

 

OK, the question is, then why I have not been created as a cockroach or an elephant? And what about the soul of a cockroach? (I am purposely using this example because most humans as far as I am concerned detest cockroaches!)  So is creation unfair? Does the soul or spirit of a virus or bacteria have no chance to embody into a human body in a distant future to attain enlightenment? I have read Hindu and Buddhist scriptures with regards to this and they generally state that all creatures will eventually attain enlightenment or be embodied into a human form. There is a popular saying in Hinduism that it takes about 8 million years for a simple bacteria to embody into a human body. Of course, I am aware that the time taken could be longer or shorter as well.

 

I love to hear your thoughts on this. This paragraph which I have quoted at the beginning of this thread  has been bothering me for a long time. 

Thank you.

 

[Blanchflower]

3 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

I'd say it's not true.

 

Yes, saying it not true satisfies my intellectual understanding and makes me intellectually happy but that statement is not enough. Why do you say it is not true? Have you reached a certain level of enlightenment to disprove that a virus has no chance to embody into a human body?

 

Thanks.

[ajasatya]

There is One Spirit, which can perceive Itself as many.

[Forestluv]

11 minutes ago, Blanchflower said:

OK, the question is, then why I have not been created as a cockroach or an elephant? 

The passage of the story you quoted doesn’t address that. I suppose we could imagine things and add it into the piece of the story above. Or perhaps one could contact the author of the story to see what he imagines.

24 minutes ago, Blanchflower said:

 And what about the soul of a cockroach? (I am purposely using this example because most humans as far as I am concerned detest cockroaches!)  So is creation unfair? 

If we assume that there is a thing called enlightenment that is good and we assume that there are some beings that do not have access to this goodness and we assume that such beings are lesser, then I would say yes, it is unfair.

27 minutes ago, Blanchflower said:

 Does the soul or spirit of a virus or bacteria have no chance to embody into a human body in a distant future to attain enlightenment? I have read Hindu and Buddhist scriptures with regards to this and they generally state that all creatures will eventually attain enlightenment or be embodied into a human form.

According to the story you posted from Johnakan, no chance. According to the story you cite from Hindu and Buddhist scriptures, yes chance.

Cool stuff. I like stories about reincarnation and souls. Sometimes I imagine each being is a pod exploring earth and all of our souls are connected to one Mothership. As pods break down and die, they get recycled into new pods. In one sense, it isn’t unfair since all pods are the Mothership. Yet if one assumes that pods are different, some pods are better, and one is restricted to a certain pod fate for eternity, then that would be unfair. It’s essentially saying there is a “me” that got stuck with a crappy fate for eternity. 

 

 

 

[Blanchflower]

4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

If we assume that there is a thing called enlightenment that is good and we assume that there are some beings that do not have access to this goodness and we assume that such beings are lesser, then I would say yes, it is unfair.

Well on a very deep level, I just know that Life is fair. We may not have the understanding on why some babies get tortured or raped (to use an extreme example) or why some creatures are being embodied in a body of an ant or cockroach who have no chance to reach an higher level of consciousness at the current time but I remember a saint stating empathetically that "LIFE IS FAIR!"

Well, those of us here on this forum could have embodied as a virus or an ant many billions (not millions) of years ago in different planets because the earth is only about 4.6 billion years old and our universe is approximately 13.7 billion years old. If that is the case, then the opening post of my thread is categorically false and does not make sense to Creation.

Moreover, this group states confidently that the age of a universe is approximately 40 billion years old and a Big Crunch would happen in about 25 billion years. But according to ancient rishis, an age of a universe is approximately 300 trillion years before a Big Crunch happens.  The timeline difference is way off and to put things in perspective, 40 billion years is a short time. Considering that it is a popular statement in Hinduism which states that a soul who embodies into a human body takes about a million births to attain enlightenment or even have a desire for it. Well I am being too technical here but I hope you get my point.

But I would like to hear more views from other members of this forum.

4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Forestluv]

16 minutes ago, Blanchflower said:

Well on a very deep level, I just know that Life is fair. We may not have the understanding on why some babies get tortured or raped (to use an extreme example) or why some creatures are being embodied in a body of an ant or cockroach who have no chance to reach an higher level of consciousness at the current time but I remember a saint stating empathetically that "LIFE IS FAIR!" 

I don’t disagree with you. It’s relative to assumptions and how terms are defined.

[Aakash]

Babies get tortured because absolute infinity must be all possible things 

god loves everything unconditionally truly 

so god loves babies that are tortured and god loves the people torturing the babies

because they are god 

and god loves itself unconditionally OF ALL FINITE CONDITIONS  

god is a madman in love with himself 

[Blanchflower]

2 minutes ago, Aakash said:

Babies get tortured because absolute infinity must be all possible things 

god loves everything unconditionally truly 

so god loves babies that are tortured and god loves the people torturing the babies

because they are god 

and god loves itself unconditionally OF ALL FINITE CONDITIONS  

god is a madman in love with himself 

Yes, that is true in Ultimate Reality but most beings are not aware or have realized Ultimate Reality. It is like teaching graduate maths to a grade 1 maths student.  You get my drift?

So I need a more practical explanation in the context of relativity, not in the context of Ultimate Reality.

[Aakash]

@Blanchflower any story is a single (1) possibility and it MUST play out 

There is NO REASON behind it, 

the way we analyse a situation as good vs bad, evil vs good is how we see what is just the 1 possibility and we judge it and feel pain for it, we try to attach meaning and reason as to "why" it happened, "how" it could have been avoided, "should" it have happened", "can" we prevent this from happening, "how" should we punish those people, "must" we do something to stop it 

We are trying to reason with something that can not be reasoned with, because the 1 possibility happening is itself a pointless of any valid value except that 1 possibility being itself. 

there are no "why, how ,must , should, could, must" when it comes to god 

only what IS. 

This is one relative answer 

Another relative answer is, in this way creation is relatively unfair and relatively fair depending on who's viewpoint you look at it from. If you look at it from god's perspective it's fair because ALL possibilties play out. and if you look at it from your perspective it is unfair, however the perspective it is unfair, is fair itself because god questioned himself into asking is that unfair. So all possibilities have been taken into account. 

God can say 

1) it is fair 

2) it is just 

3) it is unfair 

4) it is unjust 

5) it should happen 

6) it shouldn't happen 

all dualities can be applied to infinity and so on. because there is a person that viewed it as fair (me) and a person that viewed it as (unfair) all possibilities pertaining that situation have played out and infinitely more within other peoples point of view

Edited July 31, 2019 by Aakash