Formless

[Joker_Theory]

Hi everyone

We all know what form looks like and think we know what it is. Think Leo said the form and the formless is the same.

What is the formless??

[Aakash]

@Joker_Theory it’s a “word” that is basically used to describe the whole of reality as a whole with you included. Therefore as long as you stay your false self, you will never know it and others can only point to it. But we can help you in the deconstruction process at best. The work must ultimately be done by you 

[Joker_Theory]

@Aakash  oh i hear you but i just so want to try to know but i can't use psychedelics and meditation and self-inquiry is not deep enough but i am so soooooo interested in knowing about the formless. How does one start to deconstruction process?

[Aakash]

Contemplation is what I would suggest first and foremost. 

And then secondly, using contemplation as your primary tool will make your self-inquiry more advanced. 

You should also get up to a systems thinking (stage yellow) spiral dynamics stage. All three of these are your best ideas bet 

[Joker_Theory]

Wow interesting. thanks. Going to watch Leo video on contemplation.

 

[Forestluv]

@Joker_Theory

Nonduality means not two. If there is a difference between a formless state and the formed state you currently perceive, that it is a duality. As well, nonduality vs duality is a duality that dissolves.

Look around you and see that formless Nothing is formed Everything.

"Form does not differ from Emptiness

And Emptiness does not differ from Form.

Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is Form."  -- Heart Sutra

[Aakash]

No worries, have a good day. If you have any questions about contemplation. ?? 

Ahaha maybe I got abit too excited that you were genuinely interested. However seratoninluv saw a good blind spot in my reply. Yeah Lool I know I said it’s one but it’s the one after the collapse of form and formless 

[Joker_Theory]

@Serotoninluv Are you saying the space between forms is the formless? If so it is just a duality of form?

[Joker_Theory]

@Aakash i am genuinely interested. Not sure why you say i am not interested.

[Aakash]

@Joker_Theory ??‍♂️ People are here to end their suffering lol, hardly anybody comes for truth because it’s genuinely interesting just a few. 

Its not bad because that’s what it is. It’s just refreshing to see a bit of passion. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Aakash

[Joker_Theory]

To me it's not a bad thing sometimes suffering is a road sign pointing the way to the path truth. Which is in my case but i got blasted with amazement at the truth and feel like a want-to-be astronaut reading about space on a real Astronaut site with real astronauts.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Joker_Theory

[Aakash]

@Joker_Theory ahaha that’s cool! I didn’t quite get the apology! But either way it’s sounded really positive! Good luck! 

[Joker_Theory]

@Aakash Cool. Thanks for your advice

[Forestluv]

52 minutes ago, Joker_Theory said:

@Serotoninluv Are you saying the space between forms is the formless? If so it is just a duality of form?

Ultimately, form is formless and formless is form. 

Ime, direct experience is key. It’s not something that I could figure out mentally. I was shown the deconstruction of all distinctions to Nothing and the re-construction of distinctions to Everything. 

You mentioned that you can’t use psychedelics and meditation isn’t deep enough. That is a limiting belief. These realizations can and have been revealed in people without psychedelics. Yet for many people, psychedelics will allow space for revelations. Ime, psychedelics revealed many facets of nonduality - many of which were whacky and destabilizing and I went through developmental stages that seemed to fluctuate between sane and insane. I had about 50 trips before clear revelations of null void and absolute infinity manifested. I didn’t trip a few times and realize the breadth and depth of this clearly. It was a long process.

Without psychedelics, the clearest revelations came in a sensory deprivation tank (90 min.). Things kept dissolving until the only thing present was my heartbeat and “I” went to a place before “I” was born. It was sorta like consciousness was back in the womb. Everything after birth dissolved. There was no “me” because that “me” was created after I was born. There was no images or thoughts. No things like houses, horses, coffee, language, womb, fetus, birth, brain, people, no whatever. Everything that appeared after birth was dissolved and was absent in this mystical space of consciousness. An immense amount was deconstructed (all things constructed after birth). Pretty much all things we perceive as form dissolved.  It was deeply profound, yet not quite the null void because there was a type of ineffable essence/presence

One of the most important things I learned is that it’s not mental. Language, images, symbols and mentality all get deconstructed away and dissolve as the null void is approached.

Another key for me was a genuine desire to explore this and a willingness to try new things and let go of whatever needed to be let go of. 

 

 

[Joker_Theory]

7 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Ultimately, form is formless and formless is form. 

Ime, direct experience is key. It’s not something that I could figure out mentally. I was shown the deconstruction of all distinctions to Nothing and the re-construction of distinctions to Everything. 

You mentioned that you can’t use psychedelics and meditation isn’t deep enough. That is a limiting belief. These realizations can and have been revealed in people without psychedelics. Yet for many people, psychedelics will allow space for revelations. Ime, psychedelics revealed many facets of nonduality - many of which were whacky and destabilizing and I went through developmental stages that seemed to fluctuate between sane and insane. I had about 50 trips before clear revelations of null void and absolute infinity manifested. I didn’t trip a few times and realize the breadth and depth of this clearly. It was a long process.

Without psychedelics, the clearest revelations came in a sensory deprivation tank (90 min.). Things kept dissolving until the only thing present was my heartbeat and “I” went to a place before “I” was born. It was sorta like consciousness was back in the womb. Everything after birth dissolved. There was no “me” because that “me” was created after I was born. There was no images or thoughts. No things like houses, horses, coffee, language, womb, fetus, birth, brain, people, no whatever. Everything that appeared after birth was dissolved and was absent in this mystical space of consciousness. An immense amount was deconstructed (all things constructed after birth). Pretty much all things we perceive as form dissolved.  It was deeply profound, yet not quite the null void because there was a type of ineffable essence/presence

One of the most important things I learned is that it’s not mental. Language, images, symbols and mentality all get deconstructed away and dissolve as the null void is approached.

 

 

Wowwww that was the most amazing thing i have read in a while.

I see now what @Aakash means with deconstructing things.

Thanks for this, my friend.

much appreciated and much love.

[Aakash]

@Serotoninluv interesting was it doomsday as soon as you found null void (which is a brilliant word, definitely going to adopt it) or did you come out and go back in? 

In other words, is it binary for you in the absolute sense ? 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Aakash

[Forestluv]

15 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Serotoninluv interesting was it doomsday as soon as you found null void (which is a brilliant word, definitely going to adopt it) or did you come out and go back in? 

In other words, is it binary for you in the absolute sense ? 

You are unaware of how many distinctions are here.

As I said, it’s not mental. All this stuff dissolves. 

[Aakash]

@Serotoninluv Nevermind it makes sense actually what happened. 

It means you have to define your intent beforehand  

thanks for solving one of the biggest riddles about psychedelics I’ve ever had lol 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Aakash

[cetus]

@Joker_Theory Contemplate what you were before your conception.

[Forestluv]

11 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Serotoninluv Nevermind it makes sense actually what happened. 

It means you have to define your intent beforehand  

No. 

You keep employing mental faculties. That’s not it. Ime, that is the #1 deterrent and it can be extremely difficult to let go of.