self-inquiry understood

[Petals]

with 'understood' here I mean 'intellectually understood'. I hope that this can now set the foundation for the real practice of self-inquiry. and I am sharing this so that it may help you in this way too. I am not sure if this is the most obvious triviality that everybody here already knows, at least for me it is a next level of understanding and maybe it is for you as well. Please do really contemplate these sentences. That is what I wrote down as it came into my mind:

since the question is 'who am(!) I?', I can only be(!) the answer, but never know it.

because I cannot be something that I know. and I cannot know what I am.

when there is being, there is no knowing/'not-knowing' and vice versa.

that is because 'am' means oneness, and 'know' means separation (of subject and object).

since 'am' allows only for oneness, I 'am' absolutely one with (all) 'am-ness' / being.

'am' is oneness. 'am' is absolute identity.

I 'am' oneness (because I 'am'). I 'am' absolute identity (because I 'am').

I am not a thing that is one or identical (with sth), but I 'am' actual oneness/identity itself.

'am' not only denotes existence but also oneness.

since 'am' means/is oneness, and since as a consequence there can only be one 'am-ness'/being, I 'am' that.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Petals

[Preetom]

@Petals

Very good. You got it!

Now back to self inquiry mines. You wont get lost after understanding the significance of being over knowing

Its not about any question, answer, experience or anything. It is about ceaseless aming, aming, being until the identity shifts for good, or more accurately all superimposed limitations are gone from identity.

 

Edited July 29, 2019 by Preetom

[WelcometoReality]

@Petals Very well put. Good Share!

[Truth Addict]

@Petals Thanks!

So are these conclusions not being?

Is intellect not being?

Are knowing and being separate?

[Preetom]

44 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@Petals Thanks!

So are these conclusions not being?

Is intellect not being?

Are knowing and being separate?

Yes all of them is being and no separation between being and knowing.

But like i said, there is a qualitative difference between having an actual insight into being vs merely saying everything is being as a theorem to win a nonduality debate.

For example like a dream you see at night. Is the building you see in the dream your mind? Yes. Is the tiger chasing you in the dream your mind? Yes! Everything is a product and of the substance of your own mind/being. But usually, does everything 'feel' like a projection of your mind? No, it feels everybit outside and objectively real just like the waking world.

So there is a qualitative difference between actually waking up to that truth and becoming lucid in that dream vs pulling up your pants and running as fast as you can to save yo ass from the dream tiger ?

 

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Preetom

[Truth Addict]

1 hour ago, Preetom said:

Yes all of them is being and no separation between being and knowing.

But like i said, there is a qualitative difference between having an actual insight into being vs merely saying everything is being as a theorem to win a nonduality debate.

For example like a dream you see at night. Is the building you see in the dream your mind? Yes. Is the tiger chasing you in the dream your mind? Yes! Everything is a product and of the substance of your own mind/being. But usually, does everything 'feel' like a projection of your mind? No, it feels everybit outside and objectively real just like the waking world.

So there is a qualitative difference between actually waking up to that truth and becoming lucid in that dream vs pulling up your pants and running as fast as you can to save yo ass from the dream tiger ?

This qualitative difference becomes of no value whatsoever once you have it. And that is the gateless gate.

It has value just like mathematics has value to a bee.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Preetom]

2 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

This qualitative difference becomes of no value whatsoever once you have it. And that is the gateless gate.

It has value just like mathematics has value to a bee.

Once you really have it, you dont have to talk or argue about it.

I thought it was a thread regarding practical pointers and understanding of self inquiry. It is crucial to understand this distinction intellectually and then repeatedly having the first hand taste of being.

NOT  a thread about who can spew more nonduality theorems like osho drunk on cheap local vodka ?

[Truth Addict]

5 minutes ago, Preetom said:

I thought it was a thread regarding practical pointers and understanding of self inquiry. It is crucial to understand this distinction intellectually and then repeatedly having the first hand taste of being.

What I said was a practical pointer. But it might have not resonated with you because you already assume that it's not a pointer but just a "nonduality theorem like osho drunk on cheap local vodka". Someone might find it helpful and make use of it, probably with a different attitude.

[Preetom]

1 minute ago, Truth Addict said:

What I said was a practical pointer. But it might have not resonated with you because you already assume that it's not a pointer but just a "nonduality theorem like osho drunk on cheap local vodka". Someone might find it helpful and make use of it, probably with a different attitude.

That was fun ?

[Truth Addict]

@Preetom

You can't become free as long as you're seeking freedom. There's a quantum leap here, and it does not come from thinking or inquiring, or even meditation, it comes only if you're lucky enough. Get that or don't.

[Preetom]

3 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@Preetom

You can't become free as long as you're seeking freedom. There's a quantum leap here, and it does not come from thinking or inquiring, or even meditation, it comes only if you're lucky enough. Get that or don't.

I agree. Its an act of grace. No doubt about that.

But then again, is thinking, inquiring, meditation different from being? ?

(See what i did there? ?)

Edited July 30, 2019 by Preetom

[Truth Addict]

6 minutes ago, Preetom said:

But then again, is thinking, inquiring, meditation different from being? ?

Yes, from the OP point of view, there is. That's what I was pointing him/her to, you drunk-on-a-cheap-local-vodka Osho. Sober up! And then re-read the original post.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Truth Addict

[abrakamowse]

29 minutes ago, Preetom said:

osho drunk on cheap local vodka ?

I want to see that!

[Preetom]

4 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

I want to see that!

If I remember correctly there was someone called umar UK who got banned.

Read his posts to have a sample ?

(Dont of his account is still alive tho)

13 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Yes, from the OP point of view, there is. That's what I was pointing him/her to, you drunk-on-a-cheap-local-vodka Osho. Sober up! And then re-read the original post.

No i was referring to your statement that no thinking, inquiring, meditations can yield freedom. Then what does that make thinking, inquiring, meditation?

And the OP nailed the understanding of the self inquiry technique Ramana maharshi style. The entire purpose of that technique is to make a clear distinction between self vs non-self. Then ignoring the non-self and trying ones best to go balls deep into the self, until enlightenment happens. The OP shared this understanding by referring being vs knowing. There is no more steps, levels, complexity or nuance to it.

Now i know there are probably 100 techniques under the same label but no resemblence with the original technique. 

If you are liberated, you dont need self inquiry. Or rather, if self inquiry is properly understood to its end point, the enlightened one's default state is 24/7 self inquiry.

But as a seeker who feels bound and wanna get enlightened, they need to do self inquiry. Telling them oh there is no such distinction as self vs non-self, its all one blah blah is precisely something osho wouldn't say ...unless drunk ?

[abrakamowse]

2 minutes ago, Preetom said:

If I remember correctly there was someone called umar UK who got banned.

Lol, I will check that... hehehe

[Truth Addict]

3 hours ago, Preetom said:

Then what does that make thinking, inquiring, meditation?

Spiritual techniques basically aim at exhausting/killing the ego one way or another (including depriving ego from material attainments). Once it is exhausted, you will say fuck everything and then you will start the liberation process. Some egos are more persistent than others. I'm just giving you the answer straight away, there's no point in doing any spiritual work, there's nothing for the ego to find. Some will get it (surrender), and some will not (will keep struggling).

3 hours ago, Preetom said:

And the OP nailed the understanding of the self inquiry technique Ramana maharshi style. The entire purpose of that technique is to make a clear distinction between self vs non-self. Then ignoring the non-self and trying ones best to go balls deep into the self, until enlightenment happens. The OP shared this understanding by referring being vs knowing. There is no more steps, levels, complexity or nuance to it.

Now i know there are probably 100 techniques under the same label but no resemblence with the original technique. 

If you are liberated, you dont need self inquiry. Or rather, if self inquiry is properly understood to its end point, the enlightened one's default state is 24/7 self inquiry.

But as a seeker who feels bound and wanna get enlightened, they need to do self inquiry. Telling them oh there is no such distinction as self vs non-self, its all one blah blah is precisely something osho wouldn't say ...unless drunk ?

Why don't you let the OP decide what they find useful? Don't put your words (theorem to win a nonduality debate) into my mouth, I just asked the OP some questions, it is a civil discussion between people. I didn't push my beliefs onto anyone, and I didn't disrespect anyone or use any offensive language, I don't know what you're complaining about. It's just a civil discussion and I am allowed to ask questions/offer perspectives.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Truth Addict

[FoxFoxFox]

@Petals When you are in deep sleep and someone calls your name or makes a loud sound you wake up. Yet you believe you do not exist in deep sleep. You think you go somewhere indeterminate. But why would you wake up if you weren't fully present? Awareness is unbroken at all times, no matter what's on display (if anything at all!). So, now that you are awake, what has been added to your experience that makes you search for your true Self? This is self-inquiry from another direction. By taking away all the non-essential elements of your direct experience, you'll dilute it to its essential core, and voila the Self is 'realized'.

Edited July 30, 2019 by FoxFoxFox