Leo. Suffering.

[Gili Trawangan]

13 hours ago, Preetom said:

@Aaron p

Some sources of suffering/dissonance in the path for those who are seriously progressing

1) being a lone wolf. Not resonating with any relationship for a while

2) death of all preferrances and motivation for a while as the entire motivation system would eventually have to die and get reborn anew

3) popping of most fantasies, wants and certainties of the past like bubbles.

4) having moderate to heavy disorientation in self image as the elements get popped piece by piece..leaving a pale shadow of one's previous, precious self. Not recognizing oneself that much. Being alien to oneself.

5) a great uncertainty about future. A irksome fear of not finding any solid ground ever again!

6) just feeling meh from time to time. The existential meh. For no aparrent reason. Especially after waking up from sleep.

@Preetom Yeah I resonate with this list. They can all cause frustration, but for some reason I actually like number 5. I've always enjoyed knowing nothing about the future, it's liberating

[Preetom]

And BTW about the 2nd part of the question regarding unnecessary suffering:

The ego mind has to see and reflect on all the mess and tyranny it has caused so far. That will inevitably bring in a degree of dark night of soul. Thats the necessary suffering and one needs to slowly cope with that.

But making a new victim story out of that phase and remaining there and consequently make more nihilististic firm worldviews from that place is unnecessary suffering.

From then on, a radical jump is due. The seeker must realize and come to terms how this ego is inherently corrupted and how any amount of its self exerted efforts will only create more of the same.

From then on, an identity shift is due. A progressive relinquishment of the ego and further attachment and sinking into the already perfect Self and its ever present grace.

One must literally forget or see through his/her regrets, both good deeds and bad deeds and personal stories and instead identify with the Self more and more. Once that shift is made, all the goodies god promised naturally comes.

[Truth Addict]

@Aaron p ??❤️

@Nahm What do you mean by the word 'true'?

@Preetom LOL. Of course, but only from a deluded point of view. In truth, all of that is unnecessary. But once enter that maze, you're stuck in it until you discover that you created the maze in the first place. This part of the path is the biggest obstacle towards liberation, because it seems so profound and meaningful that one does not want to let go of it, while in fact it isn't helpful for liberation at all, except for thinking-oriented people. Once you've had enough, all of it will seem ridiculous and pure mental masturbation. At least that was my experience.

[Nahm]

12 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

Those are all signs of being stuck in the mind. They all stem from the belief that no belief is true, and from deconstructing meaning and value.

It should be a temporary stage that one must eventually outgrow, like myself right now, in the process of outgrowing. Until then, there is no true liberation happening.

 

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

What do you mean by the word 'true'?

 

I don’t mean anything. I asked if you could provide examples to further explain your statement. No worries if you can not, or don’t want to, just found it interesting. Thanks. ??

[Truth Addict]

46 minutes ago, Nahm said:

I don’t mean anything. I asked if you could provide examples to further explain your statement. No worries if you can not, or don’t want to, just found it interesting. Thanks. ??

Why should I provide examples of something I didn't even suggest? You thought that I said beliefs are true, but I didn't.

[Nahm]

@Truth Addict I thought you said they all stem from the belief that no belief is true. No worries man. Was interested in what you were saying. Wasn’t saying you should have to etc. 

@Preetom ...If you get what he’s saying, could you break it down to my level maybe? Thanks

[Truth Addict]

6 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Truth Addict I thought you said they all stem from the belief that no belief is true.

Yes, I said that. But I didn't say that it's true. Because, what does 'true' even mean? It only has meaning in contrast to something else which we could refer to as 'false'. True vs. False is a duality, it is relative and groundless.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Preetom]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

 

@Preetom ...If you get what he’s saying, could you break it down to my level maybe? Thanks

I cant speak for him but IMO the spiritual path is highly individualized and nuanced. Its the complete disintregation and reintregation of ones life.

But we often forget that and thus push something that may have worked for us on all over the board.

Yes models and maps help to make sense of things to a degree but they only go so far. Thats why guru/spiritual teacher/ philosophical counselor is needed as a doctor. That can ease things up. Someone with enormous experience and seen hundreds of seekers come and go under his/her wing in their lifetime.

[Nahm]

@Truth Addict My apologies, really, I didn’t understand you were saying something you didn’t think was true. Did not see that. I’d say true is what suffering points out. 

@Preetom Thanks!

[Truth Addict]

25 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Truth Addict My apologies, really, I didn’t understand you were saying something you didn’t think was true. Did not see that.

Apologies accepted, but next time try to not put words I didn't say in my mouth, in other words, try to not assume things I didn't say.

I've gotten beyond the true vs. false duality. To say that something is either true or false is just to add a layer of belief upon reality which, to me, is unnecessary. I believe that true vs. false is just an egoic game that some people use to claim having some absolute knowledge of God, or it's something that deluded people cling to due to being stuck in their mind models of reality.

25 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Truth Addict I’d say true is what suffering points out.

Cool perspective.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Leo Gura]

I explain some of that in my video: The Dark Side Of Meditation.

[Nahm]

@Truth Addict How’d I put words in your mouth, or assume things you didn’t say? 

[Good-boy]

22 hours ago, Preetom said:

Nononono

Those are all usual responses of the mind seeing its own fickle constructions and manipulations. The first signs of breaking out of the known, the conventional, the conformity. Its part of the path.

And of course the point is not to nest in there forever. The endgame of spirituality is to transcend the mind and all its constructs. 

It all comes from the @Good-boy of all good boys ?

Good boy is aware of it. ?

[Truth Addict]

13 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Truth Addict How’d I put words in your mouth, or assume things you didn’t say? 

If you're asking seriously, then you'd rather be asking yourself.

If you're being sarcastic, then be my guest; you ever heard of no-mind?

Edited July 31, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Nahm]

@Truth Addict Neither. Was sincerely asking you because I don’t see it. 

[seeking_brilliance]

@Nahm Doesn't it suck when you have to constantly walk on egg shells and beat around the bush, all the while talking to yourself? And on a forum in which the majority of members claim to know they are talking to themselves... its interesting... 

[Nahm]

@seeking_brilliance Heaven is a pinch boring, so it is Good. 

[seeking_brilliance]

2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@seeking_brilliance Heaven is a pinch boring, so it is Good. 

   

[Truth Addict]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Truth Addict Neither. Was sincerely asking you because I don’t see it. 

What is the 'it' that you don't see? Care to explain?

[Nahm]

22 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

put words I didn't say in my mouth, in other words, try to not assume things I didn't say.