Dreams are a reflection of what IS (also, art)

[seeking_brilliance]

Those who are in touch with their nightly dreaming experiences, will begin to notice many correlations to this and their waking lives, what we call THIS.... all of THIS that IS appearing we call reality, and distinctly distinguish it from our nightly dreams. This is the huge trap of humanity throughout its history, and it is a mistake to assume that it is not all ONE and the same. We need to ? stop ? discarding the dreaming life as secondary. What a ignorant assumption that either reality is real! We (humanity) don't even know what real is!

And yet, dreams are a bit distinct, and although they are appearing as THIS, they also serve as a beautiful reflection of what IS. An awesome guide. Completely free....unless you count the necessary dream work as payment.  This thread is about how dreams and waking IS the SAME, and how dreams are a beautiful reflection of THIS (being THIS at the same time) and how this reflection is the most beautiful art. Please note that I am not saying that 'dream' is what THIS is. It is a beautiful art that is a pointer to what THIS IS. Perhaps nothing more. 

So first let's get it all out of the way, ways in which dream life if different than waking life:

• The laws of physics only apply when it serves the story. Beyond that, they are fair game.
• Time is only linear when it serves the story.
• Identification is only with the dream self when it serves the story.
• Memory and continuity is fluid, and completely serves the story. 

Do you see a trend here? You can probably say this about many aspects of dreaming life, so I'll let you discover those for yourself.

Now, to the good stuff. Ways in which dreaming is a reflection of waking life. (not saying they are separate experiences, just that they are paradoxically the same and different, together.

1. We'll start with the easiest to spot. The experience is exactly the same between both 'worlds'. In waking life, we experience with our senses : sight, hearing, taste, touch, and smell - - and emotions. In other words, we experience in thought. In dreaming life, we also experience with our five senses and emotions. These senses tend to be a bit muted from waking life, which understandably creates the illusion that they are lesser than. However I propose that they are not lesser, but transcendental of our waking senses, in a 'world' where physics only serve the story. At other times the senses are more heightened than in waking life, and again, you could probably say it's because it serves the story.
2.  Everything IS consciousness. If I hadn't been a vivid dreamer / oneironaut (lucid dreamer with the intent of self discovery), I don't think I could have ever understood this saying which is often mentioned on this site and many others. Outside of some enlightenment realization (or Remembering Self) I really don't see how this could have been fathomed in my mind. But dreaming is the perfect teacher for this. Especially when lucid dreaming, you can really walk around basking in your own divine(?) consciousness, interacting with objects and speaking to dream characters, all the while knowing that this is all you. Everthing appears as separate,  otherwise there would be no story. But nothing is separate, and it's absolutely undeniable. No woo-woo necessary. Any esteemed scientist will tell you this. Of course they won't take it as far as describing waking life.
3. Dreams are paths to self discovery. Waking life contains many paths to self discovery.
4. Dream as art.

• (From https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-arthistory/chapter/what-is-art/) 
• Art may be characterized in terms of mimesis (its representation of reality), expression, communication of emotion, or other qualities....  (sounds like dreams to me... 
• The principles of art include movement, unity, harmony, variety, balance, contrast, proportion and pattern. The elements include texture, form, space, shape, color, value and line.... (interesting how these words can also be used to describe experience, aka waking life and dreaming life)
• art therapy is generally understood as a form of therapy that uses art media as its primary mode of communication.... (literally, the dream is therapy, and uses the media (the dream) as mode of communication.) 
• Art, in its broadest sense, is a form of communication. It means whatever the artist intends it to mean, and this meaning is shaped by the materials, techniques, and forms it makes use of, as well as the ideas and feelings it creates in its viewers . Art is an act of expressing feelings, thoughts, and observations....(sounds like dreams to me) 
•  
• 5. To expand on number 2, dream characters are very diverse and seemingly intelligent. When not lucid, we mistake these characters as real people and all the fear emotions manifest in dire situations. When lucid, you realize these characters are yourself, and whether you fear yourself is up to you.  This exact description has been said of becoming enlightened by many.  As if enlightenment is equivalent to becoming lucid in a dream. 

I will add more to this list as they arise. Please feel free to add your own ideas well.

Sweet dreams!

Edited July 29, 2019 by seeking_brilliance

[seeking_brilliance]

1 day bump. Also added some more comments

[seeking_brilliance]

Bump. Come on guys it's alot more fun with discussion... 

[seeking_brilliance]

6. This body is a form of consciousness. The dream body is a form of consciousness. 

When identified with the dream, I believe to be that which is the dream body. When I become lucid, or am recalling the dream afterwards, I know that I am not (only) the dream body, but the entire dream itself. There's still the perspective from the dream body and complete knowing that I AM the dream.  

 

[FoxFoxFox]

Read Aion: Researches into the Phenomenology of the Self for an alternative perspective. 

[seeking_brilliance]

7 hours ago, FoxFoxFox said:

Read Aion: Researches into the Phenomenology of the Self for an alternative perspective. 

I have a million books I haven't finished, could you give me a hint on what this alternative perspective might be? What is your perspective of dreaming? 

[seeking_brilliance]

7. Identity inside and outside of the dream.

Inside the dream, our identity is fluid and can change at any given time to serve the story. Most of the times we are the dream self. A somewhat near representation of what we think our waking selves are, but never quite the same. Not without a certain degree of lucidity. There's always something different about the dream self compared to the waking self, and much of this comes down to false memories. False memories are one of the most interesting topics I am excited to explore in my dream work, because memories give us (although somewhat falsely) our sense of self and identity. These false dream memories can be created instantly on the spot, to serve the story, and can be so complex that there's no reason not to fall for it. Memories give us our sense of self and identity. Are you OK with the fact that you are so easily fooled? 

Inside and outside the dream, we mostly do not see ourselves in third perspective, except sometimes within dreams, or an OBE in waking.  So we typically go about the dream not even knowing what we look like unless we look into a mirror and register what is reflected back at us. On a side note:  This is the same in waking life and even when we look in the mirror, the sight of our reflection  is filtered through countless biases within the mind. What you see is labeled a million times over and an image forms of what you look like. But we see what we want to see, whether we think we do or not. And being locked in this perspective can be very limiting.  How can we ever see ourselves for who we really are, without looking within? The answer cannot be found (only) by looking without, because we will never see ourselves in third person. There is only first person. We can achieve third person in a dream , but it would still be a biased reflection, and it would still be first person since the entire DREAM is first person! So the only way to truly know oneself is to look Within. Once one realizes that everything "without" is filtered through the same matrix as our personal reflections, they realize that looking without IS looking within. 

So we are locked in these perspectives and we tend to accept that whoever we are at the moment is Who we Are. Except this is always a lie because who we think we are in the moment is an image pieced together by a matrix of thoughts, beliefs, and memories. We can't know who we are in the moment until we drop all of these things and witness. Anyway, this carries over into dreaming life, as we always tend to take the current dream self as ourself. But a dream worker knows that the self cannot be contained within any one thing inside the dream. The dream IS the self.  And I'm not even trying to talk about enlightentment here....

But what is a dream self? Do we only dream this way, because it is habitual to how we live? Would it ever be possible to dream about not being the dream-self, but being the dream itself? This is something I intend to experiment with as I continue my dream work. 

[FoxFoxFox]

@seeking_brilliance

I won't give my own perspective because it'll only mislead you.

The author in the book believes that dreams are psychic projections off of the collective unconscious. They regulate the conscious psyche by objectifying its deficiencies, hint at possible solutions, and ultimately result in the unconscious becoming more and more integrated. 

[seeking_brilliance]

@FoxFoxFox I don't disagree with these elements of nightly dreaming, they certainly serve many functions within the psyche.  I guess I don't want to imply there is any meaning to the similarities between dreaming and waking life, I just think its fun to talk about. If I feel inclined, I'll start a thread on the functions of dreaming for the pshyche. 

[universe]

Thank you very much for this thread. Very interesting read!

8.

Experiences from the waking world get transfered to the dream world. For example when someone tickles you while sleeping you might dream that an evil monster is tickling you. Or if you need to pee in waking world while asleep, you also need to pee in your dream.

[assx95]

@universe I have noticed this peeing congruence many times. I have woken up to pee moments after I somehow found a washroom in the midst of my dream, all constructed exactly like it should be, so i could pee.

[EvilAngel]

I sometimes get book recommendations in my dreams. Like, I once found Viktor Frankl's biography in a lucid dream. Then I went and bought it when I woke up. Pretty cool, eh? 

[EvilAngel]

My dreams are so lucid that I occasionally interact with [people I know in real life] in the dream. I have had long conversations with people and agreed that we would talk about this experience we were having [in the dream world] in "real waking life". 

Then when I naively bring up the subject with said acquaintances, they look at me like I'm crazy. 

A lot of my dreams are so vivid and lucid that I definitely find it hard to believe they are "just dreams".

I've been experimenting with looking at an object in a lucid dream, then looking away, then looking back. What I've found is that the object changes slightly every time. Like, if I'm looking at a wardrobe, it looks ornate the first time, then basic, then patterned, then basic again etc. 

I've been 800 years in the future, on another planet, after the end of planet earth, experiencing a kind of Star Wars type scenario with all kinds of aliens, and it was completely lucid and extremely vivid. 

Quite amazing what consciousness can do. 

[seeking_brilliance]

6 hours ago, universe said:

Thank you very much for this thread. Very interesting read!

8.

Experiences from the waking world get transfered to the dream world. For example when someone tickles you while sleeping you might dream that an evil monster is tickling you. Or if you need to pee in waking world while asleep, you also need to pee in your dream.

I've experienced this, more often as a kid. Some of these times it seems the reaction in the dream was preemptive to what was about to happen in real life, or in other words I will dream that someone is rubbing their hair in my face, to wake up in time to see my brother coming at me with a feather. Have you ever experienced anything like that? 

[seeking_brilliance]

6 hours ago, assx95 said:

@universe I have noticed this peeing congruence many times. I have woken up to pee moments after I somehow found a washroom in the midst of my dream, all constructed exactly like it should be, so i could pee.

haha, I when i have to pee, I'l go and urinate in my dreams... It feels real, but just an unending flow. Luckily i don't lose bladder control in bed. 

[seeking_brilliance]

6 hours ago, EvilAngel said:

My dreams are so lucid that I occasionally interact with [people I know in real life] in the dream. I have had long conversations with people and agreed that we would talk about this experience we were having [in the dream world] in "real waking life". 

Then when I naively bring up the subject with said acquaintances, they look at me like I'm crazy. 

A lot of my dreams are so vivid and lucid that I definitely find it hard to believe they are "just dreams".

I've been experimenting with looking at an object in a lucid dream, then looking away, then looking back. What I've found is that the object changes slightly every time. Like, if I'm looking at a wardrobe, it looks ornate the first time, then basic, then patterned, then basic again etc. 

I've been 800 years in the future, on another planet, after the end of planet earth, experiencing a kind of Star Wars type scenario with all kinds of aliens, and it was completely lucid and extremely vivid. 

Quite amazing what consciousness can do. 

Hi, I'm glad you are enjoying your dream life. I almost told a person as well, that we were lucid dreaming together. But i found out that either they were just a representation in my mind, or IF they were dreaming with me, they are too unconscious in waking life to recall it. So whatever on that. Its fun though.

Yes an object will change if you look away and back at it, but I have found that holding an intention of what the object should look like will keep it consistent. So when it went from patterned, back to basic again, it is because you held the intention in mind that it should have looked basic like when the first time you looked at it. In this way you can look away and back again, changing objects at will. 

If it makes you feel any better, higher levels of serotonin is believed to be linked to vivid dreaming, especially lucid dreaming, so I think your receptors are just fine from your MDMA experience. If you'd like to nurse them back to health a little though, you can try taking HTP before bedtime, which is a precursor to serotonin. There are lots of other foods and supplements that can support a healthy neuro-network. 

[EvilAngel]

On 06/08/2019 at 0:39 PM, seeking_brilliance said:

Hi, I'm glad you are enjoying your dream life. I almost told a person as well, that we were lucid dreaming together. But i found out that either they were just a representation in my mind, or IF they were dreaming with me, they are too unconscious in waking life to recall it. So whatever on that. Its fun though.

Yes an object will change if you look away and back at it, but I have found that holding an intention of what the object should look like will keep it consistent. So when it went from patterned, back to basic again, it is because you held the intention in mind that it should have looked basic like when the first time you looked at it. In this way you can look away and back again, changing objects at will. 

If it makes you feel any better, higher levels of serotonin is believed to be linked to vivid dreaming, especially lucid dreaming, so I think your receptors are just fine from your MDMA experience. If you'd like to nurse them back to health a little though, you can try taking HTP before bedtime, which is a precursor to serotonin. There are lots of other foods and supplements that can support a healthy neuro-network. 

Thanks my friend ❤️?

[seeking_brilliance]

46 minutes ago, Ero said:

@seeking_brilliance Have had very similar experiences. In fact the dissolving of the perceived duality "reality - illusion" happened within a dream for me. 

That's awesome. How did it affect your waking life? 

Robert Waggoner talks about something similar in his book: Lucid dreaming Gateway to the inner self, where he talks about becoming pure light. In another dream, he asked to experience his "feeling tone" which casts down upon him from the sky and becomes one with it. Great book

Edited August 7, 2019 by seeking_brilliance

[seeking_brilliance]

@Ero Have you ever stepped inside a dream? In other words going from the waking state straight into a dream? It's kind of life changing. The walls that separate each "reality" are much thinner than we think