Why Talent Is Overrated in Spirituality (Shinzen Young Case Study)

[mandyjw]

@Truthority What's worse, the thought that you're going to die or the thought that you'll live FOREVER? 

I'm so glad neither one is true. 

[Aakash]

@Truthority Interesting, yeah i see with clarity now 

So what makes someone decide to become an enlightened master and one person not? 

There are two things 

1) a person preches the tradition that bought them to that point 

2) a person creates a new teaching for others 

3) a person does a fusion of both of these by adding in their own unique style to things 

These are the only three options, but why the difference? 

When at the end of the day the "experience is gone" 

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Aakash

[Natasha]

12 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Natasha LOOL! that was finely worded. In other words, just let the fire burn 

Then retrack your way back to the fire, to master how to light a fire 

 

Yeah that's what they also call going full circle, God playing hide and seek with itself

[Aakash]

@Natasha  but is this a "choice" that one has to make, or is it still "part of the thought story" 

I'm probably nearing the end of my existential questioning

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Aakash

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Aeris It's fine I am used to projections they are mostly false and lead the the collective unconscious, I am sarcastically grateful for that. 

I've tried various psychdelics or derivates of them over the span of a year. With different insights which make (for e.g time and space cloapses etc.)  sense now, when reading upon jhanas etc. I enjoy and love the path of mastery I've read the books around it and listened also to audiobooks, talks etc. 

I notice I want to meditate the as long as I can under the influence of LSD, darkness and such is fine, music, pen and paper, a journal etc. I did most of this, yet LSD is also limited ? Accessing a third tier is different from second tier. 

Mastery and hard work, discipline and diligence are even stage blue aspects. I've listned to this stuff before Leo introduced it that is why I was so hyped, same for the politics section. I can't get more synchronicities or I seriously turn into a lunatic. 

I am a bit critical with advice I've read so much about "life" and life adivces etc. I've learned to discern what I can apply and what fits in the current situation. 

Structure is more important than content, if I can't structure my day to sit down properly and meditate a MINIMUM of 1h a day, then how can I gain results. That is like studying for 1h instead of 3. At one point motivation and effort does matter. That is why a structured days is important, pure chaos can be a devil, at one point all the advice comes back, like a boomerang and you'll be able to catch it. 

I am still a newb with psychdelics, and not as advanced as Leo or Martin Ball or other members on the forum. My enviroment certainly does not give me access, this literally is the dark ages here. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[Natasha]

12 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Natasha  but is this a "choice" that one has to make, or is it still "part of the thought story" 

 

It's all God's 'doing' via its 'will'. And, of course, this is all conceptual/language stuff that further reinforces the illusion. 

[Aeris]

yes life is a boat, everything that steer your boat

and of course you can sit all your life if that's your choice.

 

what I wanted to give, but maybe that was projection of mine

 

laying down on a bench under the sun is totaly equal to sit down and "meditate"

 

even "practice" are a matter of perspective/self contextual

create your own yoga 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Aeris

[Aakash]

@Natasha Yeah thanks i understand with complete clarity now. 

Realistically your saying the answer to the ANY question is 

"it-self" correct? 

The reason being there was a day which cetus said to me "there is a level of consciousness where you stop asking questions" 

 

[Natasha]

1 minute ago, Aakash said:

@Natasha Yeah thanks i understand with complete clarity now. 

Realistically your saying the answer to the ANY question is 

"it-self" correct? 

The reason being there was a day which cetus said to me "there is a level of consciousness where you stop asking questions" 

 

Yes

[Aakash]

@Natasha Thanks!!!! my whole understanding is complete for coral now! 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Aeris That what I did with psychdelics. Which lead to the deepest experience. I just ate fruit and walked around in my home, listening to audiobooks, meditating and listening to music. 

The meditation part for a couple of hours similar to a retreat structure was insane, I had so many insights and wanted to sit for hours, no technique worked. But it was still just some beginning. 

Having a proper structure and setting works wonders, meditation also especially if you are sensetive to sound, which I am very attuned to, so binaural beats and deep, shamanic meditative music can drive meditation sessions under the influence of psychdelics very deep, if one just sits.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Aakash said:

my whole understanding is complete for coral now! 

? ♥️ 

[Key Elements]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's like if someone told you he's doctor. Okay, but that doesn't say much. What really matters is, How good of a doctor is he? Not all doctors are the same.

That's a really good point, but a good doctor doesn't go out of balance and ruin the health. I've decided to go into my life purpose with the discussion of self-transendence said sparingly and tactfully at the top of Maslow's. The rest of my LP will be teaching a skill (in a fun, creative, mindful way) because that's a basic need--more toward the base of Maslow's. Show, instead of telling. What I don't want to do is turn my Maslow (LP) upside down and focus solely or over emphasize on Truth and Love. It gets obsessive. And, there is this saying, "Truth isn't told; it's realized." The words "truth" and "love" are just words. You could say it a million times in a million different ways, and ppl still won't get it. They could just be coming back for more good words. Shinzen Young's master, who is senior to him, told Shinzen Young not to keep coming back and asking him and be dependent on him.

[Aakash]

@Key Elements this is the reason why I said students must overtake their teachers. It creates an unhealthy relationship when they turn beliefs into belief structures which need new beliefs to ingrain deeper structures of truth via authority. When you have a belief based structure and not a genuine insight based structure that you -yourself created, it requires you to become reliant on other people to form insights. The process becomes reactive instead of proactive. This is how education is taught today. Even if you told a person to critically think, the truth is even the people who claim they’re critical thinkers aren’t. A critical thinker builds their own foundations which their truth relies on. Critical thinking is not only about judging the validity of someone’s else’s conclusions. 

When your teaching, it should progress like this. 

Belief structure mapping, direct experience through testing, bridging truths, copy conclusion of teacher. Validate statements of truth and begin to reverse engineer conclusion to untested truths. Verifying untruthed bridges via different methods, conclude the whole structure is based on insights and not beliefs now. Create your own beliefs, validate insights or bring in new beliefs from the teacher again and validate it. Do this as many times as you need until your core structure is formed, find new teachers to teach you new things. Overtake all teachers teachings/ leave teacher and develop your own new structures. 

If students aren’t taught how to do this, you can forget about having a top student. 

Note: this is not a response to the direct conversation you are having with Leo. Just giving my insights about what is written specifically in about student- teacher relationship, not the doctors things

Edited July 31, 2019 by Aakash

[SunnyNewDay]

4 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Pay attention to how you feel as much as you can and as often as you can, and you'll be able to sort intuition from higher self from the ego's ramblings and demands. Even in what you wrote you mention how you want to avoid certain feelings, you already inherently know this. Our job is always to move in the direction of how we want to feel which we cannot do unless we carefully observe how we are feeling all the time. You get better and better at knowing how you feel and better and better at moving in the direction that makes you feel better. You feelings are already intuition itself, they are your inner guidance system. 

For example, this past winter I got an impulse to look up a book on the internet but I was busy and couldn't do it just then. I forgot what the impulse was. I vividly remember standing in my bedroom and remembering the amazing feeling of the impulse, which was still with me. I knew that I had had a really good idea and wanted to remember what it was, so after a minute I did and that time I was sure to do it. The book ended up being something entirely different from what I was expecting, it was a rabbit hole into nonduality, which was completely unexpected, because at the time I thought it was just going to be reading something fun and interesting. 

The thing about impulses is, they don't make logical sense so having a fun and playful spirit along with a deep desire for truth will go far. 

I have also experienced extremely forceful and almost terrorizing intuitions as a child before I knew how to watch my feelings. Looking back I know that if I had followed them I would have woken up, but why they came through years before I was ready to open my heart to them, I don't know.  

Compassionately working with fear in oneself is key. On the other side of fear is love. Of course, this is just another way of wording, pay attention to how you feel. Work with the fear, cultivate the love. 

 

 

Yeah the thing is I feel all sorts of inner conflict and I don't always trust ideas and stuff that comes to me. I have a very over active ADHD/OCD/anxiety driven mind and it is hard to distinguish what to follow and what not to. I listen to my feelings but sometimes I feel I need to step in and see things through. For instance my intuition tells me to quit my job but that may not be feasible right now and at other times I feel proud of my work and like it has grown me in a positive direction. Also, doesn't the idea of moving in the direction that makes you feel better contradict the idea of avoiding tough situations? I have felt for a while now that I don't want to lift weights anymore because it is boring but I know good things come with discipline and sometimes not with just going with the flow for how you feel. It's hard to follow your feelings if they are fucked up. What I'm doing right now is experiencing my feelings and doing breath work and getting in better touch with them but I think I am holding onto all sorts of negative beliefs and emotions which sort of poisons intuition and makes it hard to follow. 

[Key Elements]

2 hours ago, Aakash said:

@Key Elements Overtake all teachers teachings/ leave teacher and develop your own new structures. 

What new structures? I agree with you when you said direct experience. If you're teaching because you developed new structures from other teachers, that's a belief. If you're teaching because you're drawing from your direct experience, then that's authentic. A teacher can only teach you to be more articulate. For example, Shinzen Young calls the transformation from God/No-self: Riding the Ox Backwards and God's arrow. Look up God's arrow under his name. That's why I think Shinzen Young knows Truth because he described the transformation from God as God's arrow. Leo, on the other hand calls it singularity or Godhead. Anyway, that transformation will take you back to your ego, and your ego will be bombarded with this massive love, indicating that you're on earth, the to love realm. The description of my whole story, I have to find a way to speak of it in my LP.

[Aakash]

@Key Elements Well ideally you’d want to do something with that knowledge. That will require you to reupgrade your metaknowledge and shape it into a new form. I.e the use of forming the notion of a god head or god arrow. 

I don’t think it’s about articulating. A teacher can only teach you what he knows. If it happens to be flexible knowledge that can improve your articulation, then that’s great. However, just like in leo’s Video of authority. The only real purpose of a teacher is to give you a sense of grounding (bringing this into mysticism now) as sense of truth. The more grounded the truth in relation to reality and how it actually works within any field. Gives you that further articulation. 

As I’ve said in my enlightened trinity diagram. Any teaching from riding the ox backwards and god head are simply just terms for understanding consciousness. 

The only real question to ask is who’s term has more understanding depthwise VS width wise VS dimensionally VS cross - laterally VS cross - vertically to infinity as it would happen to be. As consciousness is infinite. 

Everything is actually infinite, infinite bread, infinite ice cream , infinite cupboard. Even if a cupboard does not exist now , it may exist in the past and so as paradoxically as that soundscape its infinite cupboard. there is no single enlightened being who can tell you one absolute truth. 

The distinguishing factor is only this: nuance, the degree of understanding is nuance. BOUND together by layers and layers of “1 term” laterally and vertically. 

I will have a look at this shinzen young guy. What statement are disproving/ proving and I will return with my objective opinion 

 

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, SunnyNewDay said:

Yeah the thing is I feel all sorts of inner conflict and I don't always trust ideas and stuff that comes to me. I have a very over active ADHD/OCD/anxiety driven mind and it is hard to distinguish what to follow and what not to. I listen to my feelings but sometimes I feel I need to step in and see things through. For instance my intuition tells me to quit my job but that may not be feasible right now and at other times I feel proud of my work and like it has grown me in a positive direction. Also, doesn't the idea of moving in the direction that makes you feel better contradict the idea of avoiding tough situations? I have felt for a while now that I don't want to lift weights anymore because it is boring but I know good things come with discipline and sometimes not with just going with the flow for how you feel. It's hard to follow your feelings if they are fucked up. What I'm doing right now is experiencing my feelings and doing breath work and getting in better touch with them but I think I am holding onto all sorts of negative beliefs and emotions which sort of poisons intuition and makes it hard to follow. 

Yes, part of raising your consciousness means being present enough to catch when you are thinking egoic thoughts. You know them because they cause you pain. As soon as you feel that pain, you calm the mind. So awareness of how you feel is the very first, most important step. Every time you interrupt a negative thought with a conscious breath or looking at the sky and appreciating it's infinite beauty, your brain rewires itself. 

That's why diet, exercise, lifestyle and all personal development sort of flow into the same place of raising your consciousness, yes some steps take discipline to get there. It doesn't feel good to not have discipline when it's needed. Being unhealthy and eating a crappy diet doesn't feel good, but the reason so many people live this way is because they just aren't in tune with how they feel. 

[Aakash]

@mandyjw do you want to hear a funny irony.

your body is always functioning at optimal rate. Well trying to. And is. 

It’s you who’s the stupid one making it unbalanced ? , it’s trying to help you under all circumstances. And your just saying fuck you dawg

[Key Elements]

1 hour ago, Aakash said:

@Key Elements Well ideally you’d want to do something with that knowledge. That will require you to reupgrade your metaknowledge and shape it into a new form.

I don't understand what you mean by "upgrade my metaknowledge." A metaknowledge, such as an awakening, is already there--permanently. You can't alter it. So, no, I cannot alter my awakening.  It's already the deepest awakening. That's how I know that Riding the Ox Backwards, Singularity, God's Arrow, and Godhead all mean the same thing. I did not read this from a book and know about it. You cannot understand these things from a book. It has to be based on your own direct experience. When it was said, I knew what they were talking about. In fact, I think I'm the only one who mentioned these four terms here.