Why Talent Is Overrated in Spirituality (Shinzen Young Case Study)

[AlwaysBeNice]

Few things Leo.

Masters can take you to psychedelic depth through eye contact etc.

I also think you don't understand animals and their enlightenment, I would say they are enlightened.

[Leo Gura]

@mandyjw Something like that.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

Few things Leo.

Masters can take you to psychedelic depth through eye contact etc.

No they can't. If they could the whole world would be enlightened by now.

It's almost the opposite. No matter what a master does he will not enlighten you. That method of teaching is too indirect and crude.

Once in a blue moon some student wakes up. The other 99% fail. The failures are just not publicized, for obvious reasons.

I've met people who do vipassana for 15 years and still don't know what enlightenment is.

Quote

I also think you don't understand animals and their enlightenment, I would say they are enlightened.

So a donkey knows that he's God but 7 billion humans don't? Haha!

[Key Elements]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

If the choice comes down to trusting 5-MeO-DMT and DPT vs trusting Shinzen and Ralston, I will trust the neurotransmitters. 

Yeah, but you were telling us that there are no brains; it's all maya and one with God, blah, blah, blah, and yet you trust neurotransmitters.  Anyway, no substances will be able to induce an experience like the movie, Interstellar. It is possible for a deceased loved one to come to you and tell you that you've already had an awakening in a non-verbal manner. Then, you find out later on because of profound clues. To me, this is more convincing. Anyway, the bottom line is, I doubt that you know exactly what Young and Ralston actually experienced, unless you trust and know them well, and they told you straight in the face. To me, Young understands both love and truth. He calls truth no-self. That's it. It's the same as God. He doesn't try to go into a full two hour episode trying to describe it.

[Chi_]

 

 

1

 Advanced issues found

▲

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

So a donkey knows that he's God but 7 billion humans don't? Haha!

Hopefully, this isn't going too off-topic but one of those rare occurrences happened with a cow who was close to Ramana Maharshi apparently. The cow spent decades with him and was öoberated before its physical death. Here is the link

[Chi_]

1 minute ago, Chi_ said:

Hopefully, this isn't going too off-topic but one of those rare occurrences happened with a cow who was close to Ramana Maharshi apparently. The cow spent decades with him and was öoberated before its physical death. Here is the link

Some format error with that post.. 

[AlwaysBeNice]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No they can't. If they could the whole world would be enlightened by now.

It's almost the opposite. No matter what a master does he will not enlighten you. That method of teaching is too indirect and crude.

Once in a blue moon some student wakes up. The other 99% fail. The failures are just not publicized, for obvious reasons.

I've met people who do vipassana for 15 years and still don't know what enlightenment is.

So a donkey knows that he's God but 7 billion humans don't? Haha!

An enlightened guru doesn't just look at you and ka-bam, al though that might happen, you sit at the guru's feet and meditate on him, stare into his eyes, and then certainly you can open into something greater, happened to me a few times and I always resisted it as it got too real for me at that point.

Donkey is living God, humans are too busy thinking about what's God.

 

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Yeah, but you were telling us that there are no brains; it's all maya and one with God, blah, blah, blah, and yet you trust neurotransmitters.

I'm still telling you that brains are imaginary, as are neurotransmitters. The word "neurotransmitter" is being used here in a relative, imaginary sense.

It's not the neurotransmitters I trust, but the Truth which they help to unveil.

If you were stuck in jail cell inside a dream and I told you to use the key to unlock the door, the key is still imaginary. An imaginary door requires an imaginary key. It would be foolish to reply to me, "Haha, Leo! If this is all a dream like you said, why are you telling me to use this key? Why do you trust the key?"

When inside The Matrix, we speak in the relative truths of The Matrix world. One of those relative truths is brains and neurotransmitters. Once you've taken the neurotransmitters you'll realize neurotransmitters and brains are imaginary. But only AFTER you take them!

[mandyjw]

@Leo GuraYou've really thrown yourself into the lion's den haven't you? Everyone says that nonduality and truth can't be described using language and are just pointers blah, blah, blah but until you understand that deeply people get the wrong idea. You're a polarizing, provocative as fuck teacher because your pointers are like knives to the heart. Efficient and effective, but... ouch.

Yet your videos are super long and in depth. Well, God works in mysterious ways. 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Everyone says that nonduality and truth can't be described using language and are just pointers blah, blah, blah

I agree.

[Key Elements]

@Leo Gura ok, but I never asked my bro to come into my life again like that and tell me non-verbally. That is more convincing than someone of this realm giving me a key. My point to this example is, you don't know how deep the rabbit hole went for other enlightened masters.

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

you don't know how deep the rabbit hole went for other enlightened masters.

Of course technically I don't. I can't crawl inside their heads.

But one can still make educated deductions.

When an enlightened person is not able to properly answer questions about the nature of Love or Truth, that's a red flag. If Love or Truth are denied, something in their understanding is missing.

To me the highest teaching is very simple:

1. You are God.
2. Infinite Consciousness is the only thing that exists.
3. Everything is imaginary.
4. Everything is designed for the sake of Absolute Love.
5. Truth & Love are totally identical.

Any teaching which does not state the above in clear & explicit terms, I am suspicious of. There are further nuances, but that's the core of spirituality/awakening.

[AlwaysBeNice]

By  the way, the animals are enlightened statement is not just some wishy belief I hold, I've had 2 enlightenment experiences with the felt experience of one being related to being a bear and one to a cat, not like I was a cat, but the state of consciousness.. eh hard to explain, very deep and harmonious though.

And I was looking into a cat's eye the other day and the light was reflected so deeply in him, I actually have no doubt they live in a deep state, very present, pure, just also the eyes of animals, 100% pure.

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

I actually have no doubt they live in a deep state, very present, pure, just also the eyes of animals, 100% pure.

Of course they are very present, because they got no higher mind.

They are pre-ego. Enlightened humans are post-ego. It's not the same thing. Your cat may be very present and pure, but he is not conscious that he is God. Whereas as a human can be. It is not enough to just be present. One must realize that he is God.

An imbecile can be very present. That doesn't equate to metaphysical insight.

You can do a frontal lobotomy on a human and he will become very passive and mindless like a cow. But that isn't God-realization.

The point of all this work is not be present, it's to understand what reality is. If you're not crystal clear about what reality is and why reality is, then you've got more work to do.

[mandyjw]

The story is that humans became evolved enough for thought in the garden of eden and got the knowledge of "good and evil" or the illusion of "free will." Animals don't have that.

 If you think that that development was nothing more than a massive unfortunate mistake, then you cut yourself off from the magic of creation. So there's prethought, caught in thought and "no thought". Yet animals, and all of nature and those potent things derived from nature (psychadelics) from the prethought category all have the potential to help align you with conciousness because in a wierd strangeloop fashion it includes all and you are all of it.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

When an enlightened person is not able to properly answer questions about the nature of Love or Truth, that's a red flag. If Love or Truth are denied, something in their understanding is missing.

To me the highest teaching is very simple:

1. You are God.
2. Infinite Consciousness is the only thing that exists.
3. Everything is imaginary.
4. Everything is designed for the sake of Absolute Love.
5. Truth & Love are totally identical.

When you write “enlightened person”, does that suggest clarity and understanding in all those components? Or could an enlightened person have degrees of clarity and understanding? For example, deep, clear, integrated understanding in #2 / #3, yet several gaps of understanding in #4 / #5.

[electroBeam]

@Leo Gura How do you keep motivated about enlightenment if you are conscious that you will reincarnate as a tree?

Also why do you care about truth? 

[AlwaysBeNice]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course they are very present, because they got no higher mind.

They are pre-ego. Enlightened humans are post-ego. It's not the same thing. Your cat may be very present and pure, but he is not conscious that he is God. Whereas as a human can be. It is not enough to just be present. One must realize that he is God.

An imbecile can be very present. That doesn't equate to metaphysical insight.

You can do a frontal lobotomy on a human and he will become very passive and mindless like a cow. But that isn't God-realization.

The point of all this work is not be present, it's to understand what reality is. If you're not crystal clear about what reality is and why reality is, then you've got more work to do.

They don't use human ego mind, but they may be so immersed in god-consciousness, that they actually know without knowing.

I mean, if I think of my glimpses I have at night, there also isn't a human knowing there either.. 

Oh and by the way, if you pay attention, animals can smile :)

[zeroISinfinity]

This is God Consciousness. Animals that smole are you. 

[Preetom]

@zeroISinfinity

Would you rather be a sad nun or a snake that smiles? 

"A sad nun is a bad nun" ?