Consciousness existing apart from the brain?

[Autumn]

11 hours ago, Kushu2000 said:

@Serotoninluv lol, stop avoiding the argument.. if i hit you in the head you will lose consciousnes. Yes or no? It's a simple question. 

I think rather than you "losing all consciousness" when you get knocked out, I think your state of consciousness changes into a very inactive one.

[Kushu2000]

@Autumn i guess it's almost like deep sleep.. there is judt "nothing". No consciousness, or rather, no one to be conscious, just pure emptiness. However Nisargadatta, as far as I understand, said in his book"I am That", that there is apparently a state of consciousness (for lack of a better term), called Turiya, in which one is conscious even in deep sleep. So, in a way, Turiya encompasses all, the dreaming, the waking and the deep sleep state. It encompasses all but transcends all at the same time

[Truth Addict]

@Kushu2000

Consciousness is occurring inside/dependent on the brain, and the brain is occurring inside/dependent on consciousness. You can't separate the two. They're one and the same. Form is identical to formlessness.

How is this even possible? I don't know. Ask God.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Kushu2000]

@possibilities

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

@Aakash 

You can’t get out if it by simply stating “mystical experience”, it isn’t an argument

Boom. Exactly. "Dude, stop using logic bro, get on our level and have a mystical experience bro!! It gon' shatter your materialist paradigm in seconds bruh!"...and yet, no mystical experience can occur without a (functioning) brain. This is where my skepticism lies. I've had the non-dual experience as well about a year ago, but does it really "prove" anything? What if non-duality is just like schizophrenia - a subjective perception projected onto reality? It makes sense, because reality is inherently terrifying and full of suffering, so people have to create beliefs and put themselves into mystical trances/non-dual states, in which "everything is infinite love and goodness". 

"Kushu, that's just your ego speaking!" But what if I truly am just a human? What if I'm just a monkey? It's interesting to me how people want to discover that they're God or something totally different from what we assume (a human) and go to such lengths (taking 5MeO extensively, locking oneself into a cave) just to further double down on their delusions. 

What if non-dual states are experiences, generated by the biology, which then make a person project their "non-dual awakening" onto the world? 

 

[possibilities]

@Aakash again with the projections, I’m likely nothing like you. Prosletysing is fuelled by the inner projections of the prosletyser, so if there is to be improvement here you’d need to address this by going inside. This explains all forms of brainwashing that others believe to be “coming from a good place”.  And how would you know that I’m not enlightened? I doubt you have some definite measure at your disposal. Avoid making assumptions, that is one of the biggest sins to reason.

Yes let’s move on, stick to the subject of the thread. 

[Kushu2000]

@Truth Addict hmm that's a good, simple explanation. I was actually able to understand it, whereas the previous posts on this thread of endless philosophical jargon made absolutely no sense lol.

[Kushu2000]

@possibilities one things i have to say is that if everyone REALLY learned to think for themselves, they would come to the conclusion that Leo (and myself a long time ago) has come to. He recently released a video about it.

There is only one authority: yourself (as in you for yourself, me for myself). Any external authority is a distraction and cannot lead you to the truth... Kind of sounds like this forum this forum in all actuality is the biggest distraction of all, because people are trying to describe the "Tao that can't be named".. which makes the Tao not eternal 

 

[possibilities]

@Kushu2000 Haha if I was administrator I’d just ban all low quality posters and prosletysers. I’m a lot more strict in this sense than Leo though haha. They truly can’t comprehend that they’re just projecting though, this is why after all Leo makes videos in the ways that he does. It’s a form of personal indoctrination, taking the high ground, which is a tough thing to escape if you believe yourself to be acting as a “teacher”. When one is a teacher, especially when they classify themselves as such and haven’t been asked by others, the latter being a more sensible endeavour, they are not being students of life, in this sense they are charlatans. All sense of superiority beyond mere logical deduction is illusory, and this is where all teaching stands when they have not been asked.

And yes, I see lots of “teachers” on this forum and not enough simple discussion among human beings where there’s a sincere attempt towards mutual learning.

[Aakash]

Lol i've been doing some thinking, never thought i'd ever be called a religious fanatic, thanks possibilities. It means a lot, maybe it is projection. It's not like i demonize projection. it's more like, creating future ground work lol. I forget sometimes we live in the 21st century and then my relativity becomes skewed. Still , it is what it is. Not a big fan of the silent pathway. 

Maybe you are enlightened. Enlightened beings tend to dislike projections LOL.  

Still thanks, its a compliment that i got to experience, which is nice. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Aakash

[zeroISinfinity]

[possibilities]

@Aakash I just recommend realising that the worlds a big place and you never know who knows what and what we don’t know, so there’s a case to be made with respect to working to always being epistemically humble. I’m not sure where you’re from but there’s 300 plus million people in the USA, and 641,000 plus people in Las Vegas. That’s a heck of a lot of people in one city, many of which would know many more things than me about many different things, many of which I’d never even heard of. This is why it’s better to stick with sincerely attempting to help people from a humble position that have actually asked for help as opposed to merely assuming that even because you’re helping that you know more than them in the moment that you’ve stopped helping, they may have made several useful connections in the time of that interaction that you never even though of that you otherwise could have learned if you were more open to an exchange on an equal playing field. So if to teach, so I don’t deprive myself of learning, I must simultaneously try and also be a student. It’s a case to case sure, but here it’s a case of all things being equal.

Edited July 28, 2019 by possibilities

[Aakash]

@possibilities I agree, its like i say. Its a choice of preference. I find counter-acting deeply ingrained beliefs with pinpoint truthful insights, a more effective way of dealing with mass delusion of the whole forum. This is my version of an equal playing field. It is not right or wrong in my opinion. 

Still there is much value in your approach. We are in for the same long game. People using their critical thinking abilities to proactively create amazing and insightful debates. 

Thanks for the conversation. 

[possibilities]

I edited my comment just above for posterity. And no problem.

[Truth Addict]

5 hours ago, Kushu2000 said:

Btw, how do you delete @possibilities or @jed vassallo?? This is annoying

Insert an emoji before and after the @username and then select them altogether and then delete.

@possibilities 

We can't disprove logic through language, because essentially language is a logical tool. Anytime we use it to disprove logic, we get stuck in a strange-loop. At the same time, we can't prove logic either, for the same reason.

The thing is, whenever we think, logic happens as let's say a mind phenomenon (metaphor), and whenever we don't think, logic disappears.

So, maybe we could agree that logic is a temporary phenomenon that is relative to a state of consciousness, which we might call illusion? In my language, illusion means something that appears to be true but isn't. We could expand this view even further by applying the same criteria for everything else. So, in the end, what we could conclude is that everything is an illusion, but that illusion is occurring, so we could say that it exists and that it's true. Again, due to the limitations of language, we're stuck in a strange-loop. In my experience, the only way to transcend it is by releasing the mind, or in other words, by returning back to emotions.

(p.s. I tried my best to understand your previous posts. I'm not sure my post is relevant )

 

[zeroISinfinity]

Consciousness is not prior to anything it is everything. So no separation possible. ?️?

[Truth Addict]

@Mikael89 What is consciousness?

[Preetom]

11 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@Mikael89 What is consciousness?

If you mean absolute consciousness then there is no positive definition. There cannot be a positive definition because that would be a contradiction of terms. How can we define something which is prior to definition?

But there is a negative definition of consciousness. Very simple and eye opening.

"Anything you are aware of, is NOT Consciousness/Awareness"

 

[Truth Addict]

@Preetom I wasn't actually looking for answers.

[Preetom]

11 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@Preetom I wasn't actually looking for answers.

And unfortunately i couldn't give you any ?

[Kushu2000]

@Truth Addict lol that's some cryptic shit and it took many tries to do. Thanks though

Edited July 28, 2019 by Kushu2000