Consciousness existing apart from the brain?

[Kushu2000]

People have probably talked about this stuff ad nauseum, but i havent heard a good argument for thid yet... If i hit you in the head, you lose consciousness. How can you then say that consciousness exists "out there" somewhere, apart from you, and exists withour your brain?

Edited July 27, 2019 by Kushu2000

[ajasatya]

4 minutes ago, Kushu2000 said:

How can you then say that consciousness exists "out there" somewhere, apart from you, and exists withour your brain?

It doesn't. Everything is made out of consciousness.

[Kushu2000]

Yeah, but why do you become unconscious if I hit you in the head with a baseball bat?

[Natasha]

20 minutes ago, Kushu2000 said:

If i hit you in the head, you lose consciousness. How can you then say that consciousness exists "out there" somewhere, apart from you?

Because Infinite Consciousness is not limited to function of one's senses/finite mind (human consciousness with a small 's'), it's the essence of reality, the 'stuff' everything is made out of, the nature of existence.

 

[zeroISinfinity]

[zeroISinfinity]

If you are looking for logical explanation for this. There is none. Truth is direct. This is Truth and I am you Telling you this. ?

So brain is made out of Consciousness, logic is made out of Consciousness etc. ❤️

Edited July 27, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[Forestluv]

@Kushu2000

Is a character in your dream conscious!? 

[Kushu2000]

@Serotoninluv lol, stop avoiding the argument.. if i hit you in the head you will lose consciousnes. Yes or no? It's a simple question. 

[possibilities]

We can’t be certain that we’re conscious either, the whole idea itself is fabricated by our belief that we are perceiving anything at all. We call it “consciousness” and “perception” because that’s what we think it is relative to our frame of reference but in reality it might not be that all (nor anything remotely resembling a dream as some say, that’s also a potential illusion). We might always be in perpetual darkness with respect to absolute truth outside of logical truth, of which, are completely different things. Many people confuse the two, probably upwards of 99% of people. Thus all you really need is logical truth in this sense, because you can never be completely sure anyway.

[xthebentnecklady]

It's a dream with its own rules dude.

If you dream that you get hit in the head with a baseball bat,you will dream that you lose counscioness,right?

Same happens in real life,because it is a dream with its own limitations.

 

[possibilities]

@xthebentnecklady as I said you can’t even be sure it’s a dream. That’s just a mental construct of which is forever separate from ultimate reality, if that’s even a thing, given it’s also a mental construct.

Edited July 28, 2019 by possibilities

[Kushu2000]

@possibilities yeah, that's what i think as well. I'm a very avid reader, but lately I've realized that "knowing stuff" doesn't really get me anyhwere. What's the point of knowledge, if ut's not knowledge anyways. So, do you thunk that non-duality/cosmic consciousness is "the truth"? Because, if this whole thing of consciousness 'being produced by the brain' was true, all of the stuff we are seeking for on this forum (non-dual permanent awakenings) would in a lot of ways just be an escape from reality. This is why Leo's teachings have been a real problem for me lately, because it just seems like an escape from reality,. It's easy to go into a non-dual state (or not, depending on your amount if resistance) and experience that "everything is an illusion" which ofc makes you prone to just being a vegetable inside your room without doing any real-world change, because, after all, everything is "an illusion". I could be wrong though..

[Sempiternity]

You are a character being played first person in a videogame you call your life. When you are playing a fist person videogame, and that character gets hit in the head with a baseball bat, and he 'goes unconscious', does that videogame character have a brain and it's own consciousness? No Everything in that game is made of the same thing, including the main character and the bat and the unconsciousness. The same as this game you're apart of. 

[Kushu2000]

@xthebentnecklady be careful, you are literally parroting what Leo is preaching on his videos. Are you sure that this is just a dream? Your dreams are DIFFERENT every night, however, every time you wake up, you wake up into the same country, in the same bed (unless some weird shit happened to you xD) and your day pretty much looks the same. 

[zeroISinfinity]

@Kushu2000 Truth to be told it is beyond dream or magic. It is Just perfect. How else it could be. ❤️

[possibilities]

@Kushu2000You can really only trust logic, but just know that this is also just a fabrication. Everything I could ever possibly conceive is just a thought construct. Everything Leo or anyone in the entire history of mankind has said could be utter bullshit as well as will be that way for humans for all eternity, you have to take that possibility into account, at the same time though our consciousness serves a utility function and it’s to this agency where trusting rationality comes in for me, that is, things you can rationally justify. At least for me, you have to take into consideration the fact that your rationality, is just a part of your brain that is capable of ordering contents relative to their perceived patterns, that is it, thus because it’s just a part of your brain activating, it’s not you, it’s just the part of you’ve decided to use over other parts of you because, at least for me, you’ve found that they have more consistency with respect to being true (for lack of a better word). Remember though that it’s also rational to make alive other parts of your brain because then those other parts get to communicate and feed new insight to rationality that it otherwise wouldn’t have been able to perceive. For example, imagine the data that doesn’t reach rational action for people that don’t have any one of our normal senses that we take for granted. It equates to a blind person inevitably being hit from incoming traffic, a deaf person never being able to pickup on the emotions of people’s vocal tones so they will fool themselves in the sometimes greater benefit in having an overemphasis on visual information, and so on and so fourth.

As for “rational action” relative to say as you’ve noted, “helping the world” and so on, well that is completely within your discretion. My recommendation is for you to go inside of yourself, learn to trust your own judgment over others and use the outside world as “extra senses” that feed your rational judgement, many people and their conclusions including your own and my own will be incorrect, all of this as noted could be utter bullshit, it is merely relative to the logic I’ve been able to glean in this moment based on, theoretically speaking at least, the activation of the rational regions of my brain.

Given the connotations of rationality, you must’nt trust science, spirituality or anything, all of these are just pathways of information. Science tends to be much more reliable because of the successive incrementally more sophisticated experimentation but it has many, many, flaws as well that need to be recognised, all in all meaning, this is more credence in you forming and discovering your own judgements so that you don’t use any of these as illusory authority figures. You after all could be the one to provide valuable information to any one of these areas.

Logically speaking, knowledge is valuable because it fuels your judgement on a situation, however it all depends on the utility of knowledge relative to your circumstances. For example Leonardo Da Vinci likely wasn’t learning about marine biology while he was trying to paint the Mona Lisa, he dedicated himself pretty solely to that accomplishment even if he was discovering other things along the way to that ideal. Moreover based on this there’s the realisation that our focuses inform our endeavours (so Da Vinci was biased as well in this regard), which is why all of us are wrong in a way, because we’re biased by our main interests both with respect to brain regions we exercise overtime and subsequent knowledge we generate and move towards based on those insights. A spiritual guru who isn’t a mathematician will develop very different brain regions to a mathematicians who isn’t a spiritual guru, so in this regard, insight is relative. Sometimes insight will only click with a person depending on say the brain regions that are lighting up at that time.

All in all, as stated in my comments above, I am not certain of anything in literally any direction. I don’t prosletyse the “no self” propaganda nor do I prosletyse the “I have a self” propaganda, and that’s even though I have a lot of knowledge on this subject. I am not even certain that my body exists even though on a logical level, if I cut my leg that my consciousness inhabits I am confident I will feel pain. Nor am I sure that my consciousness exists, even though, I feel that I am typing this message. Given the limitations I’m aware of pertaining to my ability to perceive truth, to me there must always be humility there with respect to the likelihood of any one assertion that I really believe to be true is actually completely false. As noted, some then go on to say, “well this could all be a dream then”, my response to that though is “why does it have to be an anything?”, we wouldn’t know anyhow, it could be something totally and completely foreign to what we’re even capable of putting into words.

We have to be self practitioners in this regard. Make up our own minds, as noted, use experience as merely a portal to communicate and have information communicated, as opposed to being so adamant about any one thing, that’s to me anyhow, after all perhaps “strong advocates” of things are meant to exist, perhaps that’s their destiny, I wouldn’t know, I have to be open to that possibility.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by possibilities

[possibilities]

Excuse some of the spelling etc above, typed it on iPad while laying down so it has weird autocorrect, etc sometimes

[DrewNows]

What is consciousness: the case for the quantum soul 

Edited July 28, 2019 by DrewNows

[Consilience]

Look into the hard problem of consciousness.

Notice that everything in your direct experience is consciousness, including brains. Sight, taste, touch, sound, smell, mind, awareness, everything that is form, is some manifestation of consciousness. 

The idea that there is physical reality is itself an IDEA which is mind, which as we just discussed, is a manifestation or expression of consciousness. Physical reality has never been proven, nor could it ever be since literally everything we experience IS consciousness.

Just because brains correspond with experience, this does not entail that they are the experience or even responsible for the creation of the experience. This is basic logic, correlation =\= causation. Moreover, since brains themselves are consciousness, it means that brains are consciousness interacting with itself.

Does mass create gravity? Why does every particle of mass have a gravitational force associated with it? You could say, “oh mass creates the gravity!” But this is making a metaphysical jump. We only “know” that mass is correlated with gravitational fields and these can be calculated using mathematics. To say that mass creates the gravity is to make a claim (the mind) about the fundamental nature od existence that is ultimately just a belief, since such a claim could never be proven. Similarly, we only know brains correlate with consciousness insofar there seems to be a relationship, just like with gravity and mass. However, to make the claim that conscious is produced by the brain is to make a metaphysical jump that extends beyond the limits of honest epistemology. 

There’s your logic. Notice how quickly you’ll want to counter argue everything I say though, and point to gaps in the explanation. This is ego (more conscious manifestation). Ultimately you must become conscious that all that there is is consciousness, including brains. 

I hope this helped. 

[Forestluv]

@Kushu2000 I’m trying to illustrate you are seeing it as a personal consciousness. There is a “higher” level. I’m not disagreeing with you within your context