Leo new video on free will?

[Angelite]

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

@Conrad Also another Hadith: “I am Ahmad without the meem.” Of course if you remove the meem you will get Ahad or ‘The One.’

He was probably dropping hints here and there.

Hi, can I know the chain of this hadith? The number and by who? Up to the Prophet himself..

 

Btw, on free will, it is as simple as this:

You are given choices to do what you do. But the result is up to Divine Will. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Angelite

[How to be wise]

8 minutes ago, Angelite said:

Hi, can I know the chain of this hadith? The number and by who? Up to the Prophet himself..

I haven’t looked into it that much. I know that it is a Hadith qudsi. Perhaps you can do a bit of research on it.

[Conrad]

@Angelite @How to be wise

I know you are Muslims or ex-Muslims like myself. I believe the purest form of Islam is Sufism, I recommend reading about it and their great teachers. They justify or at least try very good to justify their teachings from the Quran and the Hadiths. These are advanced, God-realized beings. Like Ibn Arabi, one if not the greatest Sufi master, along with Rumi and Mansur Al-Hallaj. Here is a great quote from them:

''Therefore, know your self, who you are, what is your identity. ... Consider well in what way you are Haqq (Truth). He who knows himself knows his Lord; ... indeed, He is his very identity and reality.'' - Ibn Arabi

''I saw my Lord with the eye of the heart. I asked: Who art Thou? He answered: Thou.'' - Mansur Al-Hallaj

''With God, two I's cannot find room. You say I and He says I. Either you die before Him, or let Him die before you; then duality will not remain. But it is impossible for Him to die, either subjectively or objectively, since He is the Living God, the Undying (Quran 25:58). He possesses such Gentleness that were it possible, He would die for you so that duality might vanish. But since it is impossible for Him to die, you die, so that He may manifest Himself to you and duality may vanish.'' - Rumi

 

 

 

[How to be wise]

@Conrad Intetesting book: https://ia601205.us.archive.org/11/items/StrivingForDivineUnionByHuda/Striving for Divine Union by Huda.pdf

I specifically like the examples of people who spoke out about ‘Fana’ (annihilation) and then were shortly executed afterwards. Their names are many.

[Conrad]

2 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Conrad Intetesting book: https://ia601205.us.archive.org/11/items/StrivingForDivineUnionByHuda/Striving for Divine Union by Huda.pdf

I specifically like the examples of people who spoke out about ‘Fana’ (annihilation) and then were shortly executed afterwards. Their names are many.

3

Hmm. Mankind in a nutshell. 

[Schahin]

Pretty derailed the topic.

What is the current consensus on free will though, would be good to hear about those enlightened people on here, who have answered already to some degree. 

Nonetheless it seems very curious to me that brother Leo reveals one more video of it, when will it be and does the fundamental question free will yes or no change? 

[Angelite]

@How to be wise and yet you deliver something that you aren't sure about? There are many weak hadiths even among muslims. 

 

*Proceeds to reading 40 hadith qudsi*

I LOVE YOU!

Thanks now I have read 40hadith Qudsi it's so satisfying~ [So many Opposites~]

But haven't found anything like it. The one you mentioned..

 

**Btw, whats up with Qudsi?..Quddus..al-Quds..I keep stumbling upon Purity/Holyness...

 

@Conrad huh? Why are you taking only parts of a verse and not fully? *Tryin to be Yousef?

And put your trust in Him Who lives and dies not; and celebrate His praise; and enough is He to be acquainted with the faults of His servants- (Quran25:58)

Edited July 26, 2019 by Angelite

[Inliytened1]

@Schahin The answer is both.  It is a paradox.  Infinity is unbounded.

[Angelite]

@Schahin I have a few books on free will and predestination.

It is both. 

[Schahin]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Schahin The answer is both.  It is a paradox.  Infinity is unbounded.

How would you describe this paradox? 

[Inliytened1]

@Schahin language is finite - it cannot grasp the Infinite.   

[Schahin]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Schahin language is finite - it cannot grasp the Infinite.   

Alright I see, but does the human have a free will individually like free humans or is it all coordinated by the one consciousness that directed every move of everything including thoughts and actions. 

As life is an illusion, free human will should be an illusion too. 

Or are there defined rules in this illusion that allow the human a free will in order to explore on its own? 

And if there is no free will, then everything in this life is carefully predestined, like every step and every word and even every itching you do on your head, sorry for that example of its just to clarify the details of life which therefore are totally under divine control. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Schahin

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Schahin said:

Alright I see, but does the human have a free will individually like free humans or is it all coordinated by the one consciousness that directed every move of everything including thoughts and actions. 

As life is an illusion, free human will should be an illusion too. 

Or are there defined rules in this illusion that allow the human a free will in order to explore on its own? 

And if there is no free will, then everything in this life is carefully predestined, like every step and every word and even every itching you do on your head, sorry for that example of its just to clarify the details of life which therefore are totally under divine control. 

Yes you have individual free will.   Don't you feel that when you make a decision?  Isn't that you making it? 

[Inliytened1]

@Schahin see you can't see Infinity from the finite - and that is exactly the design!   

[Schahin]

29 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes you have individual free will.   Don't you feel that when you make a decision?  Isn't that you making it? 

Yes but it is totally influenced by thoughts, instincts and intuition aside from previous experiences traumas, distrust or trust, family and astrological constellation of ones character, or as shoppenhauer said you can do what you want but you cannot want what you want. 

So the question does the individual human have a free will while he is not awoken yet or even while he is awoken or is it the mind that pushes these ideas/motivations due to past experiences through to him, or be it  is life predestined as  these ideas and thoughts seemingly come out of nowhere without the humans control? 

 

So free will would basically come up to can the not awoken human do anything to change his destiny or the destiny of the world? Because surely the degrees of raising consciousness are infinite or at least immense and with every elevation of consciousness you realize how limited you were before. 

More and more ways of deciding and contemplating come up and mostly the mind gets quieter and the intuition stronger. 

When before you had only lne or a couple of ways to solve a problem now you have immense amount of intuition to solve it that means you are not restricted by your mind that gives you doubts and limits you but you are becoming freer. 

So before that the mind literally rules you to the extent that you could get worried too much and  maybe even crippled by being able to take free will decisions and just followed your minds and your egos orders of survival and instinct and individuality. 

Once you eliminate your consciousness it seems to be when you can really cocreate somehow allthough still not to the unlimited extent. 

I hope that makes sense. 

So it might be you doing it, but you are not aware of how big you is, and not awoken people are controlled by their thoughts and mind roller-coaster. Which surely is not decided by them as humans to appear. Maybe it is even decided by them by theur ultimate real god consciousness but a regular human is not awarw of that and just follows his thoughts and minds or to several degrees changes his thoughts through intuiton but also that must be predestined and coming from GOD And not the human

Allthough God is the human at the same time, but still there he has planned through something so everything gets perfectly harmonious and this can only be done by a predestined life. 

So the core question would be, could it have been any different if one had decided differently in the past or cant it be any different than it is because god has carefully and consciously and intelligently taken those decisions for it to be exactly this way now and wouldn't have chosen otherwise. 

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Schahin

[Gili Trawangan]

33 minutes ago, Schahin said:

As life is an illusion, free human will should be an illusion too. 

Yes, but the human is also an illusion.

[Inliytened1]

@Schahin i think you are stuck on the idea that you are an illusion.   Yes you are God (infinite consciousness) imagining that it is a human.  But if all there is consciousness or imagination then you are as real as anything.   Real and imagination are indistinguishable.  

Edited July 26, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Schahin]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Schahin i think you are stuck on the idea that you are an illusion.   Yes you are God (infinite consciousness) imagining that s a human.  But if all there is consciousness or imagination then you are as real as anything.   Real and imagination are indistinguishable.  

I think predetermination is the better question to make it more simple. 

Predetermination in as of it cant be any other way because it was all wanted to be exactly like this from before we even have been born. 

And therefore the future of this life is also written already and to think one has free will would be therefore an illusion as it every step and action is already known and will be that way no matter what

Edited July 26, 2019 by Schahin

[pluto]

Think of free will as a maze of infinite paths. You can take whichever path you desire and experience many difference things but ultimately its all one maze, all paths lead to the one great path, regardless of the route you chose to take

[Schahin]

42 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes you have individual free will.   Don't you feel that when you make a decision?  Isn't that you making it? 

Its not that I can decide on what to dream at night or who to meet on the street or when to be hungry and thirsty or how and which thoughts come into my mind and how the weather is going to be when I am sick or ill. 

Yes from the real you, the god consciousness you decide all that but most humans dont have access to that consciousness yet so all they do is influenced by it and therefore they are only vehicles doing what god wants? (without being conscious that they are god) 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Schahin