The Core of Christianity Contradicts Act.org

[mandyjw]

Leo chooses to speak about nonduality in a very dualistic way sometimes. It's kind of brilliant when you realize that nonduality includes duality itself, and often what blocks us from realizing it is our belief that the nonduality side is the only true side and that nonduality can only be taught in a certain way. 

[SOUL]

@Truth Addict  In my own experience it has nothing to do with being opposed to using the word devil, it's just I'm aware of the mindset that results in it's use and the effects from it so I will speak about it.

Even using it in context of 'zen devil' that is tossed around here constantly is misused. Someone else isn't a zen devil to another, it's one's own experience which becomes a conceptual trap that is it.

Our own mind's attachment would be the 'devil' in it's more traditional use.

Edited July 24, 2019 by SOUL

[Jg17]

If I say I’m going to throw a chair at you then I’m not going to throw a banana at you. If I say I’m going to throw God at you, it could be the chair or the banana   

[Truth Addict]

@SOUL

Well, you asked Leo: "why call anyone a devil?". And I thought you don't like it.

We use language mostly for survival purposes. So, practicality is the reason why Leo uses the word devil. It advances his agenda, which is creating a better world, probably.

Now, he might succeed or might not. But I'm assuming he's assuming that that's the best he could do, and so he's doing it.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Truth Addict

[ajasatya]

@kev014 You are Christ, the Holy Spirit. Jesus was the name of the guy, like "kev014". Christ is consciousness, that acknowledges itself as consciousness.

[SOUL]

I totally got distracted and meant to offer on the topic, @kev014. that in Jesus' commonly accepted biblical words I do hear a message that speaks to the cessation of self suffering... in a western theology way.

Yet, religion often gets manipulated by humans to empower themselves through exploiting others. They do that through mental, emotional and yes, physical abuses with every societal tool at their disposal.

[SOUL]

It has the word evil right in it.... it's d(uh)evil.... yea, how would anyone think it's moralizing, right?

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Why call anyone a 'devil'? Yet we are all 'god', right? Imagination gone wild.

This sounds like just more dualism so awaken and transcend the mythical mind.

That was my initial post in this thread. If everything is all one then transcend the mythical mind of god and devil. It's a figment of the imagination, it only exists if you think it does.

A chair is a chair. the desire for a chair makes you feel like the absence of a chair is a thing. It's really the desire for a chair that is the thing, there isn't really a chair shaped hole in the universe where you think a chair should be.

The desire creates the feeling of absence....it feels like a hole in the universe that needs to be filled yearning out of a perceived incompleteness.

It's not really there unless you think....and believe it is.

Right, 'gods'? hah

 

Edited July 24, 2019 by SOUL

[Shadowraix]

4 hours ago, SOUL said:

So you are saying the dualism and demonization is a reflection of Leo's own state of consciousness... hmmm hah

No I'm saying if people take what Leo says and spins it off to use it to reinforce dualism and demonization tactics it's a reflection of theirs. If you've watched Leo's videos on the devil, morality, should statements etc you'd know he and many people here see past the trap of such things and merely use phrases like devilry as tools of understanding. I get your concern, so to those who don't get it, should be directed to the videos I mentioned. Leo is already moving way past such topics. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Jg17]

Sorry this is off topic from the thread but

@mandyjw I clicked on the link to your channel for no reason and saw your vid titled Nonduality, Humpty Dumpty...”. I had the same ‘insight’ about the rhyme during my contemplation of sameness and difference, a couple weeks ago. I’ve never heard anyone else make the nonduality connection and thought it was quite funny. 

From my contemplation journal: 2/7/19 “Ha! incredible. It’s [Humpty Dumpty] damn near a 4 line creation myth hahah. Wikipedia says it’s a riddle - think I just solved it :)))” After that I listened to the rhyme on Spotify and heard a second verse with lyrics which were new to me and which add some further symbolic significance:

“Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall, he wasn’t pushed and he wasn’t bumped, Humpty Dumpty bungee jumped.”

It means God willed it! It was a choice - he didn’t slip unintentionally, he jumped. And he’s safe, he knew it was safe, he had the bungee cord tied to him all along, though it won’t feel like that while he’s falling  

I also associated this with the fall of Adam. 

 

[RendHeaven]

@SOUL Such a big deal out of words...

For the sake of clarity and communication, Leo needs a label for selfish people.

Of course, we are all selfish to varying degrees. So this label includes all of us.

"Devil" is Leo's chosen word precisely because it reflects the Christian archetype.

What is the Devil? The devil is one who separates himself from God out of ignorance (thereby forgetting that he IS God).

This perfectly describes most of us. It is precisely the mechanism by which selfishness arises.

Are you suggesting that Leo should stop labeling entirely? Surely not. It's a necessary teaching tool.

 

Note that all labels are inherently independent of moralization. If a particular label seems wedded to a particular moral, that is culture and brainwashing at work.

Devilry is simply an observation. YOU are the one adding the moral context.

No shit Leo is aware that the devil isn't real. It's all God.

But he must communicate selfishness nonetheless. Clearly, the fundamentalist Christian priest who hates gays has (ironically) forgotten more of his Godhood than the bisexual Starbucks barista.

 

If your gripe is that the label should be something other than "Devil," then you are distracting yourself.

Would it soothe you if we all agreed to say "selfish people?"

That doesn't cut to the point quite as much though, does it? It doesn't encapsulate the critical aspect of "forgetting God."

Edited July 24, 2019 by RendHeaven

[mandyjw]

@Jg17 Brilliant, you took it further than I did. We wrote all those rhymes, legends and childhood stories, God is the author of it all. The Truth is... it's all Fiction. What fun to wake up to the dream together and continue to dream it. 

[Joseph Maynor]

11 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

We use language mostly for survival purposes.

Careful.  This is a limiting-belief.  God can use the Mind for whatever purposes he wants to.  God can master the Mind and put the Mind in its place.  Instead of us having the Mind on a leash, the Mind has us on a leash.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Truth Addict]

@Joseph Maynor I totally agree ?

I was describing the current situation. Definitely not talking in an absolute sense.

[Hsinav]

8 hours ago, SOUL said:

It perpetuates dualistic mindset by empowering the separation in demonizing others

You experience Leo demonizing others because he use the word devil?

The devil was created by so called religious people and what exactly was this devil? A reflection of their own unconscious mind. 

Exactly where do you see the demonizing? In the word?

[cetus]

On 7/23/2019 at 3:53 PM, kev014 said:

Seems to me like its coming down to just who I choose to believe.

If you like belief systems go with religion. If you want truth go inward tword stillness.

[Bill W]

29 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

If you like belief systems go with religion. If you want truth go inward tword stillness.

Hi Cetus. Genuine question. Not trying to be a dick here.

I'd love to read a more in depth explanation if there is such a thing, whereby the difference of 'belief' and 'truth' can be articulated. What seems to happen is that the goal posts just get moved and someone arguing they have the 'truth' (not you necessarily) then just says 'the truth cannot be put into words'. 

I've yet to encounter anything that satisfies me that you, Leo, some other Mods and some other members are not presenting their beliefs as truths.

Even all this so called 'direct experience' mostly relies on an interpretation by the person. The person interprets the experience. The person then believes that the direct experience is bla, bla, bla or evidence of bla, bla, bla

Or another thing that might come back my way is 'you haven't experienced the truth or you are at stage whatever colour'

What makes someone like the people I discuss above exempt from having a mind that interprets the experience? I don't believe (or trust?) that someone, no matter how many psychedelics they have had, or how many videos they have watched, can 'cut out the middle man' which is the interpreting and often biased part of the mind, to say Direct Experience is Truth. I believe Direct Experience .... then Interpretation... then equals persons perceived Truth. The exception to this being very physical direct experiences like burning your hand. That is Direct experience and Truth (truth being pain). No interpretation needed. No bias involved. 

People chasing that they there are God will of course interpret things to back up they are God. This is normal when passionate about something. 

How does one remove personal bias? How can one remain objective when they have already decided they are God? That they invented everything. That they are Jesus etc? For me that's a belief repackaged and marketed as the 'Truth' 

To me it's no different to what radical fundamentalists do with religion all be it you guys are probably not fucking people over and are actually spreading love and perceived wisdom. You are always trying to elevate our functioning and generally make the world a better place. But to me good intentions doesn't mean something is 'The Truth'

Genuine query. Not mocking anyone. I know I can take it or leave it. I think this forum is tolerant of other beliefs or other 'Truths'.

Does any of my query make any sense to anyone? 

[cetus]

 

@Bill W There is no need for experience of any kind.

[jim123]

@cetus56

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If you like belief systems go with religion.

Tell that to Christ then, because Christ liked belief systems.

I've watched a lot of videos of Act.org and a common theme that comes up in the videos is the idea that "belief is bad" and that everything in spirituality should be centered on direct experience (or otherwise you can become deluded by your fantasies). Or even the idea that you should have no beliefs whatsoever and that you should be in a state of mind in which you 'know nothing' (I think it was the video about radical open-mindedness).

That flies in the face of what Jesus taught. According to Jesus having beliefs is actually a good thing.

"And Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." - John 20:29

Jesus taught that believing on him (even if you haven't directly seen him) does not make you deluded, but that it actually makes you blessed. Do you want to be blessed? I do.

Here's another:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." - Jesus, John 6:47

[cetus]

1 minute ago, jim123 said:

blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." - John 20:29

@jim123 That's faith. Faith trancends mind and beliefs.

[RendHeaven]

@Bill W "Direct experience" is "Truth."

Got that? I'll say it again 

"Direct experience" is "Truth."

Why the quotes? Because the label DIRECT EXPERIENCE and the label TRUTH are precisely NOT True in the most absolute sense.

The thing which these labels point to - now THAT is what is True. Not True as a label, but True in the most absolute sense.

 

When some asshole on this forum says "I am God" or "All is One," I want you to notice that the statement is inherently NOT True in the most absolute sense.

The map is not the territory. Obvious stuff.

The totality of territory cannot be communicated because communication is within territory.

Therefore, we use maps.

"I am God," "All is One" - these are maps.

 

Now, it's your job to recognize that what is being communicated is a map. It's your turn to look for the territory.

To really answer your question: Yes, all statements made on this forum are not "the Truth."

However, most people here understand the limits of communication, and attempt it anyway.

As long as you are lost in maps, you will not find Truth.

"which map is better? which map is more right?"

The answer is none of them, lol. The most accurate map is not a map