conscious politics part 2 --> disagreement

[rnd]

I think Leo is being superficial in his "conscious politics part 2" in these points:

1) If in my country the president is N, it's not neccessarily that I voted for him. Thus, why would I be responsible for him starting a war? I might've voted for someone else.

2) it's not neccessarily that I voted at all for anybody

3) it's not neccessarily that I have so-called "my country" -- people live these days one year here, another year there.

4) If in my country the president is N and I voted for him  and for first 1 year he's a good president, but on the 2nd year, all of a sudden, he starts a war, why would I be responsible for him starting a war? He wouldn't ask me for permission

This is really that simple that this isn't that simple.

 

-----

 

5) "you'll vote for a candidate who's the most close to your level of development" -->

No. Too superficial and simple.

I don't live in one room with all the candidates to be able to know who's closer to my level of development. I know only as much as I watch about the candidates on TV. Or on youtube. If I watch political stuff on these at all. And if I watch political stuff of a country I can vote in.

And if I don't watch that? Or I watch them once a month?

Besides, that info is too partial, with noise, even if I watch them every day.

And they play on camera.

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by rnd

[tenta]

Nothing was said about how you're responsible if you voted for someone else

[Leo Gura]

You are responsible for creating the entire universe.

But this is way too much for you to accept right now.

Again, it all boils down to your circle of concern and your level of consciousness.

Your notion of responsibility is very limited.

[Truth Addict]

@rnd

I agree on #5

[rnd]

Leo, my circle of concern may be limited - true. And you haven't addressed this:

I can't know the level of concsition of the candidatess accrurately.

Perhaps(!) unless I've gotten to know and met them personally, not once, talked to them, spent much time with them, read about them. And watched them when they're not playing on camera. And read and watched unbiased, more or less objective news about them. Etc...

And this - on regular basic because people change. And not only for one candidate but for many - to be able to choose one with closer level of conscitioness to the one of my

If I did that, I'd have no time left for any other activities in life.

 

[Dan502]

@rnd you seem a bit daunted by the complexity of it all. I know how you feel.

What do you think about this kind of plan for starters:

1) make a list of half dozen areas of policy (e.g. economy, social, foreign, environmental)

2) check what the top three candidates' headline policies are in those areas

3) See what your opinions are and talk to some friends about it

I expect members on this forum might offer reasoned opinions on the levels of consciousness of each candidate too and how that's reflected in their policies, with the caveats that: 

1) it's important to "do the work yourself" to validate those opinions; and

2) it's not a politics forum so discussions relating to politics should be expressed in terms of, and geared towards, your own development.

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, rnd said:

I can't know the level of concsition of the candidatess accrurately.

Actually, if you study some Spiral Dynamics and if you work on your own consciousness, it becomes easy to assess the levels of consciousness of politicians. This allows you to size up people very quickly. You will come to recognize the common tropes of every stage of development. It can take as little as 5 minutes to size up a politician, especially if they are low in development.

People are harder to size up once they get into Tier 2, but so few people are in Tier 2 that it's not a problem.

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

People are harder to size up once they get into Tier 2, but so few people are in Tier 2 that it's not a problem.

I can easily discern Yellow, Turquoise, Coral, and Teal people.  It's hard to diagnose above your own attainment.  

Edited July 28, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[universe]

Why do you feel the need to rid yourself free of responsibility?

Do you like to have a comfy live and blame others?

You are responsible!

The point is not to be shamed for being responsible but to be powerful - to activate a force in you that sets things in motion. Instead of feeling powerless and let everything stay as it is.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I can easily discern Yellow, Turquoise, Coral, and Teal people.  It's hard to diagnose above your own attainment.  

Humble brag

[Joseph Maynor]

@universe  You can re-frame what I said anyway you choose to, that's your prerogative, but for the record my intention was not to "brag".

Edited July 28, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Aeris]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I can easily discern Yellow, Turquoise, Coral, and Teal people.  It's hard to diagnose above your own attainment.  

 

What's up doctor ?

[AncestorOfAisle6]

@Joseph Maynor

What does teal feel like?

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, AncestorOfAisle6 said:

@Joseph Maynor

What does teal feel like?

Liberation from the shackles of white-knuckle clinging to Paradigms of Truth and Paradigms of Metaphysics.  Putting the Mind in its place.  Doing the Mind without letting the Mind do you.  Metaphysics goes from being the Truth at Turquoise and Coral to being a set of more or less useful set of tools (paradigms/lenses) at Teal.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Truth Addict]

15 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I can easily discern Yellow, Turquoise, Coral, and Teal people.  It's hard to diagnose above your own attainment.  

I tend to agree with you. But it's actually harder to assess people who are on a high level of the spiral due to sophistication, nuance, and rarity. It doesn't matter where you are on tier two. Tier one does not count since they don't even acknowledge the existence of the spiral.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Truth Addict