Thoughts on plant spirits/entities, do they exist independent of your mind?

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

I always think about this question. 

You trip on a psychedelic/entheogen and encounter entities, do they actually exist in a different dimension than we do? Or is it a projection of your unconscious mind? Like the different entities people encounter on DMT

Im not questioning the significance of them being real or not, either way I think the experience is equal in value no matter what the answer to this question is.

I see a lot of talk from experienced users on forums/the internet in general about different entheogens having different spirits. 

For example: mescaline having a spirit (warm loving father-masculine in nature), mushrooms (stern but loving mother) ayahuasca (described as "mother ayahuasca" feminine in nature) and salvia having an unforgiving spirit that can kick your ass and send you into a dysphoria 

Are these different aspects of your own psyche or other conscious beings in different planes of existence? 

I guess it all breaks down to every form of consciousness ultimately being one in the same anyway so im not even sure if this question makes any sense.

Thoughts?

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

You trip on a psychedelic/entheogen and encounter entities, do they actually exist in a different dimension than we do? 

At the human level, this is a common question and has appeared in my mind many times. I think it boils down to the criteria you are using for the construct of “actual existence”. 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

At the human level, this is a common question and has appeared in my mind many times. I think it boils down to the criteria you are using for the construct of “actual existence”. 

I guess I would think of myself as an "entity" and a plant spirit as another entity, and the molecule being something that can connect our frequencies. The criteria for the spirit existing would be if I had never taken the drug is it still somewhere out there doing its thing independently of me, or does it only come into existence in my own mind when the molecule is in my body?

[DrewNows]

exists at the level in which your mind exists...all dependent on "you" 

[Forestluv]

@TrynaBeTurquoise I’ve had psychedelic-induced conscious states that I call “trans-human” because that is how it seems upon “return” to the human mind-body. The human mind-body has certain limits, yet it has much more potential than we are aware of.

I think the question of how the different effects of psychedelics relate to the human psyche is an interesting one from a human perspective. I’ve done about a dozen different forms of psychedelics and know the different essences of spirits you describe. I don’t think it is “actual” by how the human mind perceives and contextualizes “actuality”. I think it is an “actuality” beyond human contextualization at this time of human evolution. Perhaps in 200 years, humans will have explored these realms and have a better understanding.

The question of whether access to these dimensions are psychedelic-dependent is one have explored and contemplated and my sense is “no”, that they are not psychedelic-dependent - but it sure as heck helps. Ime, when the ego/person/human contextualization machine is consistently dissolved to such a degree that it isn’t appearing while sober, there is a greater chance of “accessing” these dimensions. I did 5-Meo 24 days straight, with only a few days off. One thing I noticed was that as consciousness contracted back into human form, there was a human contextualization into a human “experience”. This tendency of contextualization began to dissolve and after about 10 days disappeared and there was what I now contextualize as “trans-human” consciousness though out the day (even sober). In other words, the “god-consciousness” stuck. The last “regular” thoughts I had from a human person perspective was sitting down on my meditation cushion to vape as I did each day and there was a realization that “I” didn’t know if I had vaped already or not. The duality between “sober” and “5-Meo” perception and contextualization broke down. Concepts like “breakthrough” dissolved as there was no distinction between “pre” and “post” breakthrough. It was permanent “breakthrough”. 

Multi-dimensional phenomena occurred throughout the day, even when I was sober. For weeks straight. Yet I’m not sure how how to contextualize this relative to the human mind-body. From a human perspective, I would say there is a relationship with a particular mind-body and resonance. The experiences that Leo has recently described that seem extraordinary or unbelievable to many, seem completely normal and ordinary to me. In part because forms of extraordinary and unbelievable would manifest throughout the day for me. Yet these manifestations have been different than what others with a high baseline conscious level describe, so perhaps there are different “flavors” that human mind-bodies resonate with. This would relate to the relative nature of reality and I don’t think all beings would need to “access” the same dimensions to show “actual existence”. This idea is within a contracted human contextualization. For example, the physical land and culture we refer to as India “actually exists” and any of us can venture there. Yet that criteria of “actual existence” is within a human perceptual framework and there is a more expansive “actual existence” beyond these human constructed parameters. Should we assume a finite human mind can define “actual existence”? How will humans define “actual existence” in 200 years?

With that said, psychedelics definitely alter my resonance dynamics. I don’t need much, yet there is also desire in my mind-body to do it “naturally”. I’ve been taking a break from psychedelics and working on developing abilities without psyches. At times it’s been difficult to be off “the juice” because my resonance level seems muted and I can’t just turn it on at will. At times, I feel like a wizard without my wand. Yet, I feel a desire to develop what has been revealed to me naturally, so I can access and fully embody it sober. . . I still drift into dimensions sober that I previously could only access with psychedelics. These appearances used to cause distress in the mind-body as it seemed like a “flashback” or I was losing my mind. Yet now, it seems pretty normal.The body no longer reacts as if it is an amazing occurrence. It’s more like being conscious of a lucid dream.

[SunnyNewDay]

I'm not sure they are hanging out right now at a hyperspace mcdonald's while we are down here but what do I know 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

@Serotoninluv

Thats a great write up, appreciate the input. 

How do you handle frequently doing psychedelics like that? Have you ever had any anxiety involved going into the experiences? 

[Leo Gura]

Infinite Consciousness can take the form of an infinite number of entities or beings which can interact with each other. But all of this is being imagined by Infinite Consciousness.

In the absolute sense, everything is one. In the relative sense, entities have their own existence. In this sense an alien or a spirit is no different than a human or an animal. The "physical" realm is only one out of an infinite number of realms populated by all sorts of beings.

All these realms and beings are ultimately you. Just like in a dream.

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura Do you see Absolute truth more truthful than relative truth? Or are these two truths existing together hand in hand somehow?  In other words: Should I just consider the absolut truth and dismiss the relative truth as just little dream stuff? If this is so, then I would not care about evolution, politics, economic and other beings and myself as human anymore. because there is just one

[Leo Gura]

@OBEler You can't function in society or communicate with people without understanding relative truth.

But relatvie truth isn't really a thing. Absolute Truth is the only thing there is. Everything you think is relative is actually Absolute.

That's the delicious paradox.

[How to be wise]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@OBEler You can't function in society or communicate with people without understanding relative truth.

But relatvie truth isn't really a thing. Absolute Truth is the only thing there is. Everything you think is relative is actually Absolute.

That's the delicious paradox.

When Peter Ralston talks about the distinction between relative and absolute, he’s not really talking about it for himself. He’s making the distinction so that communication to unenlightened people can be easier. It’s unenlightened people who need that distinction. For enlightened people, Absolute is all that exists. 

[possibilities]

 

I found this interesting:

July 18, 2019 - Title: Scientists stimulate neurons to induce particular perceptions in mice's minds

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190718145358.htm

[possibilities]

And @Leo Gura, @Serotoninluv.

None of this is unusual or amazing to me, just know that there exists plenty of people who haven’t done psychedelics but still find these things perfectly normal because of other things they may have experienced in their minds and so on.

[Forestluv]

@possibilities You are becoming conscious that there is something more. The thought stories are not helping this evolution. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

When Peter Ralston talks about the distinction between relative and absolute, he’s not really talking about it for himself. He’s making the distinction so that communication to unenlightened people can be easier. It’s unenlightened people who need that distinction. For enlightened people, Absolute is all that exists. 

He still subscribes to many relative truths in order to function in everyday life.

[Forestluv]

On 7/23/2019 at 7:28 PM, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

@Serotoninluv

How do you handle frequently doing psychedelics like that? Have you ever had any anxiety involved going into the experiences? 

At times, the frequency was difficult for the mind and body - other times it was a non-issue. 

Anxiety has arisen at times to various degrees. 

 

[possibilities]

@Serotoninluv you’re having an identity crisis ?, don’t assume you can predict the state of my consciousness. Trust me, you can’t (unless of course you’ve developed supernatural powers - something which isn’t out of the question).

[Forestluv]

@possibilities

I use the term “you” because that is the level of this conversation. There is no “you” that has consciousness. This has not revealed itself yet. 

[possibilities]

@Serotoninluv Yeah, I know. Preaching to the choir! I avoid beliefs on any issue. I could be an iguana. Right now I’m a patient to medical doctors that mark me as “patient 59”, you will imagine me what you will inevitably imagine me as so will everyone else here. They cannot avoid it. You will never know me, none of you will. Nor I you.

[Forestluv]

@possibilities Pre-trans fallacy.