How Psychedelics work

[Bryanbrax]

Is he accurate ?

[Forestluv]

This is an accurate general over-view of a neuroscience perspective. Yet I stress his points that we currently know very little. He describes our rudimentary understanding of a few components of a highly complex integrated system. Secondly, his point that un-coupling the dmn and inducing novel neural communication can be helpful for SOME individuals. 

It’s not as simple as “Hmmm, this neuroscientist says all I need to do is uncouple this thing called a dmn with some lsd and it will help my psychological issues”. 

Also, he described psychedelic effects of at the level of neural tissue. To expand this, I would add that psychedelics induce neural plasticity and neurite-genesis. This is the second major property of psychedelics and allows for “rewiring” of the brain. Yet from the perspective of the human, we can’t assume that this “rewiring” will always be “good”. It’s not as simple as taking some lsd, uncoupling the dmn, inducing neural growth and plasticity - and then presto! - the brain rewires itself into a form the human person is happy with. 

[pluto]

Psychedelics allow you to truly relax into yourself, the more relaxed you are, the more still you are, the more aware you become that you are always fundamentally free.

[Forestluv]

@pluto It’s relative to the person and involves many variables. I’ve met people who cured their neurosis and spiritually expanded with psychedelics. And yesterday, I took a walk in a park with a woman who ended up in a psychiatric hospital for an extended period after a bunch of trips. . . 

[Shadowraix]

13 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@pluto It’s relative to the person and involves many variables. I’ve met people who cured their neurosis and spiritually expanded with psychedelics. And yesterday, I took a walk in a park with a woman who ended up in a psychiatric hospital for an extended period after a bunch of trips. . . 

This mechanism intrigues me. Like what exactly is going on that makes one person unable to keep themselves "together" and others totally fall apart? Is it resistance vs surrender? Getting too deep in your own head you believe everything? Lack of integration?

My friends and I have seen people turn into an incomprehensible mess yet I came out fine doing incomprehensible doses. Its exactly why I struggle to recommend psychedelics to people. 

[pluto]

@Serotoninluv I am aware of that, i am speaking fundamentally/energetically.

[Forestluv]

31 minutes ago, pluto said:

@Serotoninluv I am aware of that, i am speaking fundamentally/energetically.

Fundamentally/energetically is relative. How a particular mind-body fundamentally/energetically resonates with psychedelics is relative and involves many variables. For some mind-bodies in certain settings it can induce expansive liberation, in other mind-bodies it can induce trauma. 

@Shadowraix Same with me. Psychedelics resonated well with me and were an amazing growth tool. I assumed that’s just how it was. I now realize not everyone resonates like me. There are many forms of resonance and many variables. And it’s not because “they weren’t ready”, “not conscious enough” or “unwilling to surrender”. They just didn’t resonate with psyches like I did. . . I’m now more cautious how I discuss psyches with newbies. 

What I find equally fascinating is that the same mind-body can resonate differently at different times. I’ve had many different resonances with psyches ranging from pure live and bliss to a horror show. . . For a couple years, cannabis raised my conscious level allowing increased resonance and opening up dimensions in nature and yoga. Then the resonance suddenly changed and it started inducing contraction into personality, anxiety and paranoia. Life is so bizarre at times. 

[Nahm]

Psychedelics are quite funny in the sense they can reveal there was never anyone knowing anything, including of course what psychedelics do. 

@Serotoninluv Do psychedelics induce / cause trauma though? Or do they reveal the trauma that is identification, is attachment, is suffering, the falsity of materialism in general - in a materialistic culture / society, etc? Thoughts on that...?

Isn’t it the “mind” of the “person” which is completely relative (made up), and the psych’s are simply Truth, so the reaction to absolute (Truth), is what is “relative”...? 

[pluto]

@Serotoninluv You are not understanding me at all. Ignore my comment.

[Forestluv]

@Nahm We humans love to create and tell human stories ? 

[Nahm]

@Serotoninluv I like the theme of the Goldilocksness of the universe, and the psychedelic breadcrumbs leading us back home...home being death. 

@pluto I hear ya. Me too. I’ve also seen a couple ‘trips gone wrong’. I’ve seen some say “wow, that was a nightmare, but I now see how much I’m carrying, and what the call of spirituality is all about” and then get on the path. While others say “wow, that was a nightmare” end of story. 

[Farnaby]

Really interesting topic. The outcome of a psychedelic experience and any intense experiences in general is kind of unpredictable. Of course having a good setting, mindset and ability to surrender usually leads to expansive and liberating experiences, but because of the intensity of these experiences there's always the potential for some kind of trauma. 

Personally, my trips have usually involved moments of pure laughter and bliss and also moments of fear. However, these "bad" moments always led me to a deeper understanding of how my mind works, which after some integration always had a positive impact on my life. 

This makes me think that the attitude you have towards unpleasant experiences in general has a big effect on how they will impact your life. If you see them as lessons and give yourself time to integrate and re-ground yourself, I think "bad trips" can actually help you improve your life. However, I've never done big doses and my bad experiences may not have been as hellish as those other people have experienced. 

13 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Fundamentally/energetically is relative. How a particular mind-body fundamentally/energetically resonates with psychedelics is relative and involves many variables. For some mind-bodies in certain settings it can induce expansive liberation, in other mind-bodies it can induce trauma. 

@Shadowraix Same with me. Psychedelics resonated well with me and were an amazing growth tool. I assumed that’s just how it was. I now realize not everyone resonates like me. There are many forms of resonance and many variables. And it’s not because “they weren’t ready”, “not conscious enough” or “unwilling to surrender”. They just didn’t resonate with psyches like I did. . . I’m now more cautious how I discuss psyches with newbies. 

What I find equally fascinating is that the same mind-body can resonate differently at different times. I’ve had many different resonances with psyches ranging from pure live and bliss to a horror show. . . For a couple years, cannabis raised my conscious level allowing increased resonance and opening up dimensions in nature and yoga. Then the resonance suddenly changed and it started inducing contraction into personality, anxiety and paranoia. Life is so bizarre at times. 

@Serotoninluv Your experience with cannabis is very similar to mine. I don't know if it's a substance that doesn't resonate well with my brain chemistry, if it's just showing me my anxieties and fear of letting go or if it's both. Probably both 

[Natasha]

@Bryanbrax Psychedelics help inhibit areas of brain that give one a sense of self. Similarly, people with traumas to those brain areas sometimes get same effect, and I know a couple of people with conditions like Multiple Sclerosis that got awakened from the neurological changes in the brain tissue due to the condition.

[Nahm]

@Bryanbrax The brain is an appearance of the “underlying” actuality. Like explaining how the toaster and bread work, without acknowledging the unseen electricity. 

[Forestluv]

24 minutes ago, Nahm said:

 

@Serotoninluv Do psychedelics induce / cause trauma though? Or do they reveal the trauma that is identification, is attachment, is suffering, the falsity of materialism in general - in a materialistic culture / society, etc? Thoughts on that...?

That’s a good point. “Reveal” is probably a better description than “induce”. For example, they can reveal a previous sense of prior conditioning/identification of being a separate self and being trapped. It seems like prior conditioning and patterns are a major variable in what manifests. Perhaps similar to dreams. Most of my dreams have some connection to my waking life. 

And it doesn’t seem like there is an “internal” world of the person tripping and an “external” world the person is tripping in. All inter-related. 

There are now so many variables floating around in my head I can’t describe it coherently ? 

Ultimately, they are human constructed thought/image stories arising in my mind. 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Serotoninluv I like the theme of the Goldilocksness of the universe, and the psychedelic breadcrumbs leading us back home...home being death.  

Beautiful. I have such a poor sense of direction. Those breadcrumbs come in handy ? 

It seems many humans would prefer using GPS to get to a destination. . . 

[Nahm]

@Serotoninluv Don’t get me started. 

?

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Serotoninluv Don’t get me started. 

?

What do each of those adorable bears represent ? ?  

[Nahm]

@Serotoninluv The Care Bears? Assuming you’re going freakin Care Bears on me...personality.....facets....nothing...?

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Serotoninluv The Care Bears? Assuming you’re going freakin Care Bears on me...personality.....facets....nothing...?

The Goldilock bears. 

From the wiki description:

”What was originally a frightening oral tale became a cozy family story with only a hint of menace.”

Not too far off from psychedelics ?