Quantum mechanics explaining a possible worldwide phenomenon?

[Inliytened1]

@Dragallur good morning.  Im a bit fresher today..just didn't want any distractions but i would enjoy discussing more with you.  At the same time as long as Becks is OK with it.  We don't wanna hijack his thread to get into the weeds of Quantum physics i don't think that's what the thread was about.

10 hours ago, Dragallur said:

@Inliytened1 Well that is just not true. According to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle you do have some uncertainty but that does not mean that you can get any possibility or any velocity or any position.

Its more complex than that.  At the smallest level a particle exists as both a wave and a particle. (Wave/particle duality)   Physicists need to use mathematical wave functions to represent them.  These wave functions basically exist as a superposition of several eigenstates - but when observed by an observer they collapse into a single eigenstate.  

So the wave function is expressed using Hilbert space, founded by David Hilbert.  Hilbert space leverages the notion of Euclidean space which extends the finite two and three dimensional spaces of calculus and vector algebra to an infinite number of dimensions.

So yes it is not an infinite amount of possible eigenstates but the underlying math can be finite or infinite dimensionally depending on particular experiement.  

But remember too that with the collapse of the wave function into a particular eigenstate you can get complete certainty with momentum but not position, and vice versa.  You can't get both.

By the way are you a physicist?

Edited July 21, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

20 hours ago, possibilities said:

@Serotoninluv You’re being self righteous by calling me self righteous.

If that is indeed what you’re doing - the probability is likely extremely high, coordinates however could swing out disproportionately to knock out a satellite or two to bring about a different possibility or rather, sum of universal quantum feces to contemplate.

In the end, relative to x, whether x be utility with respect to delusion or utility with respect to a human organisms potential, there will exist better beliefs than others.

To speak honestly on that because I value the seeing of exacting appearances over mirages, yes I think am a bit self righteous, it’s likely a defence mechanism, one which I think has some value which will evolve overtime like any other reactionary mechanism within me. The difference here being I’m certainly not the one in denial about it.

Personally though I don’t see it as TOO self righteous if someone values using a parachute to survive the free fall after jumping out of an aeroplane over their belief in being able to manipulate quantum time in order to survive the fall. I also think the person who values the parachute is doing the other “quantum mathematical being” a favour by yanking their chain here so they land more safely. Not only does he pretend to know (he possesses superficial knowledge that has deluded him to believe that he has any kind of authority on the subject), he pretends to know more than others while at the same time surreptitiously sidestepping ways to answer direct questions and derailing directions. He's a bullshitter and that bullshitter is someone you're happy to defend.

There’s more ways to look at a situation than to give it the narrow definition of being self righteous, that only adds sauce to the quantum bullshit salad.

Parachute anyone? Yes please pass the sauce, I’ll grab the pepper as well if you don’t mind, “oh and let’s try and miss the trees on the way down too of course. Hey where can I get a barbecue round here in free fall for this bacon I got here in my hand that I’d like to fry and eat!”

@Becks I wasn’t referring to you, please speculate away that’s all cool and it can help in the learning process. I’m just sick and tired of the pretenders, it harms other people. You’re not pretending to be an expert, you just come across as a sincere learner, so am I and it’s the only reason I’m here, not to be some “guru” as others here pretend to be rather than just acting like real authentic human beings.

Why would you invite a pretender to your birthday if they were only ever pretending to be your friend? If ONLY I had quantum powers to flush them down that quantum tunnel they profess to know so much about. The water bill would be enormous with all the bullshit they need to flush down in order to hide and repress in their subconscious! 

 

I would like to clear the air here.  I'm not sure what i said or did to offend you - but if i came off condescending that was not my intention.

As i was telling @Dragallur - if i was you and i was locked in the materialist paradigm - which is not an insult by the way - i would be extremely skeptical of anything i say regarding mysticsm and the Absolute.  In fact i applaud you for not taking anything on as a belief.   Truth can only be known by being it directly.  Because you can't know something that's prior to knowing - or prior to measurement.

So don't take my word for it but at the same time it would not be open minded to dimiss it as delusion.  It's Ok to think that - but let yourself be open to the possibility - which ironically is your name.

You are obviously extremely intelligent - in fact one of the brightest i have seen on here with the depth, well versed paragraphs, and time you take with your posts.  That said - from my perspective i deem you are also very threatened by the Idealist paradigm or worldview that reality is consciousness and not comprised of matter.  I think that's why you saw this post and immediately desired to attack me.  That's OK.  You are right that i was pointing out what Quantum mechanics ultimately reveals - that reality isn't a clockwork universe made of dumb atoms.  It's much more nuanced than that.

So yeah - i totally understand - and i would be the exact same way if I was you and I would be saying the exact same things.  

So ultimately i hope we can get along here together but if not so be it - this stuff is paradigm shattering and thus is very threatening.  But at the same time i hope you continue to stay open minded and if i came off to you as arrogant or egotistical that is not my intention.  

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by Inliytened1

[possibilities]

This is what I call: running away from the dilettante!

He just doesn’t get that all his consciousness is mostly doing is telling a bad story about something that has zero influence over his life because his descriptions are stories not facts, albeit shallow stories because he’s a dilettante masquerading as someone knowledgeable.

TRUTH influences your reality whether it be reality relating to QM not your empty stories that make you feel good and that you know something simply because you read a little about other people’s accomplishments while simultaneously purporting to say that “scientists these days just don’t get it!”.

That’s called biting the hand that feeds numbnuts given QM arose from and lives in scientific inquiry.

Otherwise there’s still something you’re not getting @Inliytened1.

I do NOT take you at all seriously.

This has ZERO to do with the subject itself.

That’s a HUGE distinction.

It’s simple distinctions like these that you seem to miss, of which I put down largely to be a reflection of low levels of meta-cognition as per the research I mentioned before regarding the Dunning-Kruger effect.

That’s just the pattern I’m noticing, perhaps it’s incorrect but so far it seems pretty reliable.

I can’t have consistently good interactions with people that miss simple things like this.

So as for “threatened” that’s just another delusion you’ve concocted in your imagination about the interaction to date.

To me your consciousness makes FAR TOO MANY unquestioning assumptions for my liking, and along with the deception, misdirection, pretending (i.e. to be an authority on this subject along with other things) and proselytizing, it’s enough in my eyes to warrant the exclusion of earnest interaction from myself.

And as for use of the term possibilities it seems you have very little understanding of the word given you seem to ground it in listening to your quackery and the absence of which you equate to someone “not being open minded”, lol maybe they just don’t like you because they don’t trust you and they don’t trust you because you show deceptive patterns and wear authority masks. My minds prediction is that it would take you at least 12 months of consistent study to truly understand what open mindedness really means. For starters you gotta question everything including yourself, traits of which you’ve failed to exhibit given the above mentioned inclinations (inclusive of but not limited to proselytizing). And that’s just the very beginning! You’re a dilettante in my eyes.

Relative to my other options I have ZERO to gain from interacting any further on this subject here.

This will be my last comment on this thread.

But keep ribbiting away like Hermit the frog I don’t care.

(for others here - recommended reading: Title - A Little Learning by Alexander Pope - https://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/Classic Poems/Pope/a_little_learning.htm).

[Dragallur]

@Inliytened1 I don't think the technicalities change the point I was trying to make... the speed of the particle is still going to be in bounds, because the particle won't be faster than light for example. Of course you can get some certainty of position and some certainty of velocity, that still holds and goes directly from Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. Also I think there is a huge difference between Hilbert space having infinite dimensions, which is not guaranteed, and actual physical space having infinite dimensions (which it does not have, I think).
No I am not a physicist.

[Inliytened1]

@Dragallur ok but if particles being wave functions that could collapse into a particular probability or eigenstate doesn't make you question materialism doesn't quantum entanglement and Einsteins spooky action at a distance spark you to ponder this?  

Now we can talk about the science all day but once you actually have a mystical experience and collapse back from a possibility into pure potential (like that wave function) then it really hits you that oh wow this is what Quantum physics points to.  Because you realize that you are the very thing you are trying to measure.

Now that said its going to sound completely crazy to someone locked in materialism and I'm not saying you are.  But with @possibilities it is all delusion to him precisely because he hasn't experienced it directly - so course he would think its crazy.  Of course!  From his perspective it is.

If he didn't he wouldn't be a materialist!

 

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Dragallur]

@Inliytened1 I certainly did not experience what you did, basically I am just trying to discern two things, mythical experience and quantum mechanics which I think are still two quite different things. While quantum physics does shine some light onto the physicality of objects and how they work on fundamental and below microscopic level I think your experience shares some analogies with quantum phenomena but that is all. Quantum physics is important only on small scale not in your normal day life. When you say you collapse back from possibility into pure potential like a wave function I think you are mixing two things that don't have anything to do with each other. First of all, you are not a wave function, second of all what is "pure potential" and finally why don't we change the analogy to something like collapsing star or whatever else. Needless to say, physicists know that quantum physics is wrong, that it does not explain all of nature and that is something you should keep in mind when comparing your experience with it.

[Inliytened1]

@Dragallur I'm not saying that.  Actually i became directly conscious that everything is consciousness.  "Physical" reality and science are all happening within consciousness.   Reality is a Mind.  Its substance is nothing.  This is called awakening and many others have also had this realization.   This is an Absolute that you can become conscious of.  You can also become conscious that it has certain facets that are the very fabric of it.  One is infinite Love.

Once this realization happens the materialist paradigm is shattered and melts away.

But..again..this is gonna sound insane until you discover it yourself.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Gili Trawangan]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

"Physical" reality and science are all happening within consciousness.

Yup, that's right

And when you become conscious of it you laugh yourself silly because you realize the absurdity of all these discussions.

But before you "see" it for yourself, it just doesn't register.

[Inliytened1]

@Gili Trawangan

[possibilities]

Not necessarily my last post as less of a need now: pretty happy haha, I've just worked out that there's an ignore user option so naturally I won't have to worry about having to get into mindless discussions with that user (depersonalised ). That's what I'll do from on, just click the ignore (there's an option here under settings) option to categorise those proselyting with what seems to be little critical independent thought.

Edited July 23, 2019 by possibilities

[fluidmonolith]

There’s some animosity going on here, and I do want to help contribute to the conversation, but hopefully without fueling the fire.

 

I think the disconnect that is fueling this argument can be precisely summed up by something Leo mentions frequently in his videos: to paraphrase, modern science, including quantum physics, is not the appropriate tool for understanding metaphysics. This is not inherently a problem with the science, but rather an indicator of a misuse of it. When we try to inflate science to suggest, for example, that “quantum physics says X about the nature of reality”, then we’re not arguing about the science, we’re arguing about its interpretation.

Science can look within the system (of reality) and create remarkable insights and technologies. But it cannot look at the entire system from the outside, because it is itself within said system. If we can accept this idea, then quantum physics will be a lot less threatening because it won’t be (improperly) leveraged to attack anyone's worldview.

 

[Inliytened1]

 

[fluidmonolith]

@Inliytened1

Thanks for sharing!

While I am not a physicist, I have also watched and studied many videos and documents related to the double slit experiment. The results of the original double slit experiment and the follow-up testing explained in this video are quite fascinating, perhaps especially to those of us who pursue personal development and enlightenment.

However, I still claim that the conclusions drawn in this video go beyond the true science and into interpretation, as I mentioned in my previous post. In the double slit experiments, the act of measuring the position of a photon influences the experimental results. This much has been demonstrated scientifically. However, someone decided that 'measurement' (with a scientific instrument) was analogous to 'observation' (by a person). This is interpretation. And then someone decided that 'observation' means 'conscious awareness'. More interpretation. And we can keep going down this path until we believe that quantum physics proves infinite, singular consciousness. It does not.

Please understand that I am not claiming your conclusions about reality to be false. Rather, I encourage everyone to be extremely cautious when trying to understand ideas that are presented to us. We can use the results of the double slit experiment to support claims about infinite singular consciousness, and indeed, to grow we should speculate when proof is not available. However, we also need to recognize speculation for what it is. There are many ways to interpret the results of the double slit experiments, and infinite, singular consciousness is just one of them.

When we think of science as being incomplete, or not caring about the big picture, we think of unenlightened scientists. We forget that we, too, are responsible for our own biased interpretation of scientific results, even if we are not in the science business ourselves.

Edited July 24, 2019 by fluidmonolith

[Inliytened1]

@fluidmonolith There is a Nobel prize waiting for you if you can disprove quantum mechanics.

 

[fluidmonolith]

7 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@fluidmonolith There is a Nobel prize waiting for you if you can disprove quantum mechanics.

Please do not misunderstand - I am not disagreeing with the fundamental principles of quantum mechanics. I only question the validity of the claim that the interpretation is the science. Just as you shared a video giving one interpretation, I can share a video giving another:

This is physicist Neil deGrasse Tyson. As a disclaimer, I am not claiming his views to be my own, but rather to be an example of a different interpretation of the same scientific data. We could easily argue that Neil deGrasse Tyson is not enlightened, and that perhaps if he were, his viewpoint would be different. But by claiming such, we are letting the enlightenment experience(s) dictate the truth, not the science. This is fine. In fact, we may argue that it is preferable, or even ultimately only possible, to find truth from direct experience rather than science!

My only point here is that science (atleast with the methods and technologies used today) is not capable determining the absolute truth of reality. I think if we can accept this, we can let science have it's place (in the development of knowledge and technology) while spiritual seeking will have its own place too (in finding meaning, purpose, and absolute truth). [Modern] science and spiritual seeking aren't interchangeable - they both have different functions.

[Inliytened1]

@fluidmonolith yes i understand what you are pointing to 100% and agree totally but just want to add to that - its actually both.  Science is within reality - a finitude of infinity..a part within the whole, so yes it can't reach outside and grasp the whole from inside.   Science is like Mario trying reach outside the game he is in..he can't because he is the pixels making out the game.  But at the same time he is the whole game.

So science is a finite part within infinity so it cannot capture the Absolute - but it also IS Infinity itself.

Mind bender.

But yes ultimately we are saying the same thing.  Thanks for chiming in.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Becks]

@fluidmonolith I agree with this, and as a person who loves science and mathematics, I did go down a rabbit hole trying to fuel my wonder and awe for reality with quantum mechanics. I appreciate everyone's input and it has given me a lot to contemplate in the past week. I myself may go into this field of study, however I have concluded the same, that modern science and spirituality do have different functions. I can only interpret and seek the truth for myself. Thank you all.