Unspirituality?

[Kushu2000]

 

What do you guys think? Critical thinking is encouraged on this forum so banning me wouldn't make sense. Is Leo really just spiralling further down into la-la land? Is he just chasing that "high" the 5meo and DPT give him? You decide. Would love to hear your comments.

[SerpaeTetra]

I know that my 60+ year old parents would have the same reaction to me if I just brought up just the basics of spirituality.  It would be silly for myself to shoot down something that I personally can't understand, and could possibly be beyond me.  Just my two cents.

[Forestluv]

For a mind-body without direct experience of trans-human consciousness, it would appear as insane. 

The potential and power available is unfathomable to 99.99999% of humans. 

At the human level, the deeper fears are not of our limitations, but of our potential. The few humans that have tapped into these realms will resonate with some humans and will be ridiculed by others. 

Imagine being an ant and expanding to the conscious level of a human - and then trying to  explain what its like. Your fellow ants will think you cray cray when you try to explain solar systems, algebra, countries, oceans, expansiveness of earth etc. Kinda like that. 

[Kushu2000]

Lol you missed the point. Yes, the states of consciousness Leo has accessed are insane. But that's all they are - States of consciousness. After the drug wears off, he comes back down into the "physical world".. which Leo states is an illusion. The guy makes a lot of good arguments in this video. When you access these states of consciousness, there IS no past or future anymore and you deem your past - your childhood - as ILLUSION...which is obviously an escape from reality. It's much easier to live in this love-and-light trance than it is to go back into your childhood and face your shadow. This is a trance. A higher state of consciousness. It's all going on locally WITHIN LEO'S IMAGINATION. If you were to look at leo while he is tripping balls on, say, shrooms, and hallucinating harry potter, you will just see a person who is high on drugs screaming out: "OMG guys, do you see?? Harry potter is real!" Yeah, it was real, for HIM, but it wasn't there in the "natural world". Ofc leo is gonna use the counter-argument: "there is no difference between me and you at that state of consciousness, there is no subjective and objective... It's all one!! You don't get what i'm saying because you are not at this state of consciousness yet!! Get on my level bro!!" (That is literally how Leo behaves - as an arrogant know-it-all. That's my 2 cents.

[Forestluv]

@Kushu2000 You are unable to grasp what I am trying to communicate because you don’t have this trans-human experience. Thus, you don’t realize you are contextualizing through a human mind because that is all you know. 

Like I said, it’s like going from the consciousness of an ant to a human. An ant will be incapable of contextualizing it.  This goes waaay beyond what you are currently aware of. 

And from a human perspective, everything you wrote makes sense. 

[DrewNows]

18 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

At the human level, the deeper fears are not of our limitations, but of our potential. Those that have tapped into these higher states will resonate with some humans and will be ridiculed by others. 

 indeed! 

@Kushu2000 What are you looking for dude? To adopt someone's beliefs about reality? To seek self reassurance of your faith in Leo as a speaker of "truth"?

Leo doesn't tell us to believe him, but, to be open to any possibilities, explore what we think we are/know and learn to think for ourselves by questioning everything we thought we knew...

 

[DrewNows]

i think it's good leo likes to challenge his viewers to reassess their current paradigm and to constantly question and explore what they think to be true vs what he shares. It's only when we start turning the focus back on ourselves that truth may be revealed 

[ajasatya]

@Kushu2000 Stick to what makes sense to you and follow your heart. This is not a game of beliefs.

Let the trippers trip. Let the criticizers criticize. Do your best to improve the quality of your life and that's it.

[Kushu2000]

...do you seriously believe that Leo rewired the minds of fetuses? I don't care how "conscious" he was, he was just IMAGINING it! Even in the video, Leo said something like: "You might think to yourself.. but Leo?! If you really were so powerful as to rewire the minds of all fetuses, why can't you imagine a big red elephant in your room and materalize it?..." And then Leo says something like: "Of course, the universe doesn't work like that! You cannot be given all of this power, otherwise the universe would just go haywire, if everyone could do whatever they imagined into existence. WHAT?? Pleeease. Give me a fucking break!That's such a poor argument! It's almost like a child making up stories. This is literally what Leo is doing. Making up stories while high in front if his couch and presenting his santa-claus-like material to the public.

If you're GOD (as leo says he is), then levitate. Do it. In front of a camera. I mean, you are GOD right?? The big one? The almighty?? Of course you could AT LEAST levitate?? LOL

 

[Kushu2000]

@DrewNows yes, i agree. That's why i implement different perspectives from different sources. But what if the truth is, that exploring higher and higher states of consciousness doesn't leas to true awakening? Imagination is INFINITE! So, when does this journey stop? Do you just explore different states of consciousness until you die? You will never explore them all because they are infinite, so if your goal is Awakening, you should just focus on awakening, no? Not on inducing self-psychosis. 

And also,@ajasatya no, i don't think we should just let ppl do what they want. That' like saying "let the killers kill". If Leo is misleading his audience with his content, then that should be of huge concern to all the people watching

[Kushu2000]

@ajasatya i do agree with bettering your life tho :))

[Forestluv]

@Kushu2000 Everything you write makes sense from a human perspective. I cannot comment on the fetus contextualization, yet I am aware of “stuff” that is impossible to contextualize and communicate in human form.

Another way to think about it. Imagine going back a million years in time and trying to communicate to Neanderthals what human existence is like today. It would be impossible. Similarly, if a human from one million years in the future tried to explain to you what human existence is, you would not be able to comprehend it. At all. He would make what Leo is saying look tame and you wold have a similar reaction to future man. You are unaware how limited standard human consciousness is.

Rather than calling this type of thing “misleading”, I think a better phrase would be “unhelpful from the perspective of one’s person”. . . 

[SerpaeTetra]

6 minutes ago, Kushu2000 said:

@DrewNows yes, i agree. That's why i implement different perspectives from different sources. But what if the truth is, that exploring higher and higher states of consciousness doesn't leas to true awakening? Imagination is INFINITE! So, when does this journey stop? Do you just explore different states of consciousness until you die? You will never explore them all because they are infinite, so if your goal is Awakening, you should just focus on awakening, no? Not on inducing self-psychosis. 

And also,@ajasatya no, i don't think we should just let ppl do what they want. That' like saying "let the killers kill". If Leo is misleading his audience with his content, then that should be of huge concern to all the people watching

If you believe its infinite, isn't Leo being able to do this one of the possibilities? (as well as him being deluded)

[Kushu2000]

@Serotoninluv actually, i'm very aware of how limited human consciousness is... But that's all it is. An alteration in consciousness... I imagined once on shrooms that i was god, and that i created EVERYTHING (keyword IMAGINE... wink wink). Guess what... It became true.. for ME. Not an objective truth... to people looking from the outside at me, i just looked like an ape, tripping bawls

[Shadowraix]

There's nothing to be said besides do the work and find out yourself. 

You're just adding more beliefs and ideas to how you THINK reality works. You aren't going to get anything about some intellectual masturbation about it. Self inquiry is about deconstruction not construction. 

What's the point in trying to communicate something to you that you aren't aware of? It becomes a dangling pointer and lost in translation. This is why you must first expand for any fruitful conversation to bear. This is your journey to take. 

You have all the tools you need to figure out if Leo is full of shit or not. But it requires dedication and discipline. This is for people dedicated to knowing Truth. If you don't like the drug approach there are plenty of alternative methods. 

[Kushu2000]

@Shadowraix ... Why does everyone on this forum think that an altered state of consciousness is "the truth"??? I am doing the practices, no doubt, but i think that people blindly follow what leo says without questioning it. Also, if leo is so "open-minded", why does he never reply to topics that question his belief systems? You realize that psychedelics amplify what you imagine in your mind right? If you imagine yourself to be an omniscient god, you will be one. Go figure...

Edited July 19, 2019 by Kushu2000

[Kushu2000]

@SerpaeTetra yep.. and in that possiblity, all of US watching will get deluded as well

[Forestluv]

21 minutes ago, Kushu2000 said:

@Serotoninluv actually, i'm very aware of how limited human consciousness is... But that's all it is. An alteration in consciousness... I imagined once on shrooms that i was god, and that i created EVERYTHING (keyword IMAGINE... wink wink). Guess what... It became true.. for ME. Not an objective truth... to people looking from the outside at me, i just looked like an ape, tripping bawls

What you write makes sense from a human contextualization. However, there is no objective external reality. 

Saying it is “an alteration in consciousness” is a human contextualization. You are within a  human contextualization of reality and believe it to be objectively true. This provides grounding and stability to the human mind-body and has practical value. Yet, this is a drop in the ocean. 

As well, ANY state of consciousness is “an altered state of consciousness”. You are in an “altered” state of consciousness right now, yet assume it is the unaltered default state.

[d0ornokey]

Outside of the fact that you're trying to spread that ideology 

Something that would help is to consider that despite this shit being really weird and seeming nonsensical 

There is a lot of value here in non-duality, when you go deep into it and do the practices with it, with an open mind, you realize a lot of truths that once seemed really weird 

I know some things can be outrageous but as you understand what hes trying to say, and wheres hes coming from and having experience with some of the things that hes saying, your mind becomes more open

I know this, because I was once in your boat and I promise that if you genuinely get curious and inquire, there is much to be learnt here

Edited July 19, 2019 by d0ornokey

[Shadowraix]

1 minute ago, Kushu2000 said:

@Shadowraix ... Why does everyone on his forum think that an altered state of consciousness is "the truth"??? I am doing the practices, no doubt, but i think that people blindly follow what leo says without questioning it. Also, if leo is so "open-minded", why does he never reply to topics that question his belief systems? You realize that psychedelics amplify what you imagine in your mind right? If you imagine yourself to be an omniscient god, you will be one. Go figure...

People do blindly follow him no doubt. This is a marathon not a sprint. People will have hiccups and traps along the way. He does answer them, just not all of them. Manage a forum where hundreds of people ask the same thing over and over lol

Psychedelics can give you delusion or truth. Like I said this work is largely about deconstruction of beliefs. Delusion is construction. 

I lived in a world of separation believing my sense of separation was true. But what happens if you dissolve that sense of separation, deconstruct it? There is none. Do you see the nature for separation to be there is construction and deconstruction gives us oneness? Entering states of no-mind gives us the same realization. This work isn't about saying the world of duality is untrue but we are exploring the other end of the paradox. Where does all this construction arise? How? When? And so on. Deconstruct until you see what is left. 

Truth is a reconciliation of all perspectives and experiences. To fit the big picture of how this all works. You can't ever actually know the full Truth. But you can be it. And when you get ample experience where you can drop all of this need of building a mental model and knowing what all of this is your focus will shift on BEING instead of catering to the mind. Being is as close to it as you can get.