Are we robots?

[Paul92]

Robots that don't exist, of course. 

I - whoever or whatever this is that I perceive as myself - just cannot understand how anyone can find it liberating and joyous to believe that they and others do not exist in any shape or form. 

Your family, your partners, your friends, your heroes.. They don't exist, right? 

All I know is that this experience was so much better before I started exploring 'enlightenment'. Whatever that is, there's clearly zero consensus here. I had an awesome few months identifying with my mind and thoughts as me. Seeing people as real people. Loving, helping, caring. Not being a selfish spiritual prick who thinks he's unlocked the mysteries of the universe. 

I never took life too seriously. I loved life. I liked being 'me'. I loved helping others. I never wanted to conquer the world. I knew my limitations and accepted them. 

Seems to me that God (the one you all go on about) is a bit of a dick, in truth. For one, God is selfish. God says "its only me, everything is me, me me me!". For a second, why feel the need to mess with itself. If God is complete and so loving, why bother with all this? 

I could accept everything that life throws at me. Loneliness, poverty, lack of opportunities, hardship. That's fine. But I just can't accept that nobody else exists. 

I don't wanna be God. It's ridiculous. I wish I could wake up from this hell and we are all autonomous individuals. Our lives in our own hands, not dictated to by this giant stupid mind. I don't want to live forever.

I want to be able to meet my closest friends and family and hug them and tell them that I love them for who they are. I don't want to tell them I love them as a robot. It is out of order. 

And nobody can have a go at me for this thread as its clearly not me who is saying this, it is you/God yadda yadda. 

Peace out. 

[Preetom]

@Paul92

Why are you believing Leo or other woo woo nonsense?

Go live the life you enjoy. If that fails, then come back.

 

[Paul92]

@Preetom I wouldn't say I am believing Leo. But I can't avoid the fact that thoughts come out of nowhere. That, ultimately, we can't think a thought before we have thought it. So who is pulling the strings? 

Or do they come from nowhere? Now I'm not saying we, as individuals, are not thinking independently and that they are our thoughts. We have to be able to think somehow, right? How else could it work?

 

[Forestluv]

@Paul92 What you say is true and so is the opposite. 

[Paul92]

@Serotoninluv Which bit? Could you elaborate, please? 

[Forestluv]

@Paul92 You have created a duality of heads or tails and trying to make the right choice of which is true: head or tails. Become the coin and you will have a new relationship. You are then free to put that coin down and explore a new coin on a beach full of coins. 

[Paul92]

@Serotoninluv Right, yes, okay. Now could you break that down? Honestly not being obtuse. 

[Forestluv]

@Paul92 Notice how you are attached to one of two opposites. You seem to say that you have experienced both opposites and are struggling between these opposites. As if you must decide which is truer between the opposites of heads vs tails. The human mind is conditioned to imagine in opposites. And you seem to be convinced that your happiness and well-being is dependent upon making the right choice between these opposites.  This can cause all sorts of inner turmoil. . . Observe: those opposites are not two distinct separate things. They are inter-related and can even collapse together. . .

It is an hallucination your mind is working through. When our mind-body is believes something is threatening to our well-being, happiness and survival - the appearance of this something will trigger a “fight or flight” response in the limbic system - causing anxiety. The mind may keep “checking” for this threatening something to protect the mind body. Here, there seems to be some form of a solipsism hallucination your mind finds as threatening and keeps checking in with. 

[LastThursday]

3 hours ago, Paul92 said:

I wish I could wake up from this hell and we are all autonomous individuals.

I feel like this about 9 to 5 in the office. I know which hell I'd prefer. A giant stupid society or a giant stupid mind?

[Paul92]

@Serotoninluv Yes my mind definitely finds it threatening. The idea that we are all basically robots. 

You might say yes we are all ruled by something else but we are all still characters. We can love the character. It's not the same. But ultimately, I'm not the one choosing to do anything right? 

We can sit here encouraging people to do the work etc, but it's not up to them is it? It depends whether God wants that bit of awareness to experience the path. 

But then Sadhguru says everything that comes into our lives is in our hands. 

Just don't know anymore. 

I'd be interested in what Leo has to say about this. 

 

[Truth Addict]

14 hours ago, Paul92 said:

I could accept everything that life throws at me. Loneliness, poverty, lack of opportunities, hardship. That's fine. But I just can't accept that nobody else exists. 

I don't wanna be God. It's ridiculous. I wish I could wake up from this hell and we are all autonomous individuals. Our lives in our own hands, not dictated to by this giant stupid mind. I don't want to live forever.

I want to be able to meet my closest friends and family and hug them and tell them that I love them for who they are. I don't want to tell them I love them as a robot. It is out of order. 

You're enlightened buddy! You truly are!

Why do you think you need confirmation on that? You already know what is true and refuse to believe in falsehood.

Just because some people have some valid points does not make you wrong. It only means that there's always more nuance for you to learn and more perspectives for you to discover.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Paul92]

@Truth Addict sarcasm? If it isn't, I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying. 

[Truth Addict]

21 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@Truth Addict sarcasm? If it isn't, I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying. 

No, I'm serious.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying, but nevertheless, you're enlightened if what you said was true. The only thing that you can trust is your experience. It doesn't matter what other people say, unless you allow it to matter.

What does it mean to you if you don't have a free will? Why do you view this as a negative thing?

No free will means to me that I am blessed and protected, and that nothing can ever go wrong, because all is designed by infinite love and goodness and infinite intelligence. You see? Interpretation is very important.

Instead of thinking of no free will as a limit. Think of it as an advantage and then do whatever you want (using no free will to achieve freedom ). Of course, without dismissing your love, goodness, or intelligence from the equation.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Aaron p]

Belief is a big big problem. It's just another trap. A week old baby has veryyyy little knowledge/belief about anything and thus is closer to enlightenment than most of the people here. If you cannot understand this, then your not gonna get far before you set up camp in the realm of blind faith. You might as well go join Islam or Christianity. 

 

The thing that leo is trying to point you to is in your direct experience RIGHT FUCKING NOW, and nowhere else. Leo has never experienced "you", but you have! Notice...Leo is not an expert about you, nobody is...the only one who truly knows you, is you. See this. See how everyone else can never experience you, like you do. Do not believe, do not disbelieve, find the one who created both. The ONLY thing that increases consciousness are kryia, vepaasana, neti neti, phycs, retreats. Everything else is a complete illusion. Remember, the only one in the entirety of existence who has ever experienced "you" IS YOU. Not leo. Leo is within your imagination. As am I. 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Aaron p

[Paul92]

@Truth Addict which bit suggest I'm enlightened? I'm probably as unenlightened as you can get. I don't really want to be enlightened. I was happy just being human, being fairly insignificant. I don't want to be God. Just be here, enjoy my time with my friends and do good along the way if I can. Never wanted anything great out of life, just live modestly and happily. Like I said, I've never been one to dwell on things that happen to me. It's just life. 

However, I always believed that how I reacted to things that happened to me was in my hands. Bad things might happen to me, but solving those problems is in my hands. 

However, it seems to be that I'm just a robot for God who is pulling the strings, not me. So whatever happens and whatever I do is not me. Typing this is not me, it's God. But why is God doing this to itself. Makes zero sense. 

@Aaron p To be honest, I stumbled across this stuff late last year when I started exploring Christianity and wanting to know about God. And wanting to believe. I'd say, give me a sign. I'd pray. Give me a sign, I want to believe. And a lot of time, I've been led back to Jesus and God. But there are so many unanswered questions. 

Yes there is only me who knows me. But I didn't think I existed? Only God knows me. Or myself. Everything is God right. So who is this God who is sat about playing with all this? 

I don't want to be a robot. I don't want you to be a robot. I want you to be a human being. Autonomous. The master of your own destiny as much as is possible. Free. Able to make the choice whether to grow or not. Not a robot or a projection of God. 

[ajasatya]

@Paul92 Lots of confusion indeed.

[Paul92]

@ajasatya Helpful! 

[ajasatya]

@Paul92 You can just drop the confusion and move on. You're drowning in concepts and beliefs. Have you ever been to a zen retreat?

[Paul92]

@ajasatya

I would, if I could get a reasonable answer or explanation. Or just a reasonable to way to look at what my life is and what others are. 

I've said before, I don't care about what life throws at me, I just can't bear the fact that people are not people. 

I've never been to a Zen retreat. I've tried meditation at home, but I don't really understand what I'm meant to be doing and what it might achieve. 

[moon777light]

@Paul92 first master meditation. Trying to make sense of this all just with your current level of understanding will waste precious time. Do contemplate it, but do it as a side job to raising your consciousness.