If enlightenment = death, why not just kill ourselves?

[Kushu2000]

Srsly lol, why spend all this time doing meditation and self-inquiry, when you can just get the ultimate enlightenment with commiting physical suicide?

[Shin]

If you "die" conceptually, you can live the rest of this life knowing what the Truth is.

There is no guarantee that you will stay lucid if you commit physical suicide.
You may just reincarnate into an ignorant chimp like most of us, and ask again this question

Edited July 13, 2019 by Shin

[Kushu2000]

You have a point. But wouldn't living without the "you" make this existence as empty (or as full) as dying? It wouldn't matter what the "physical" content of your perception is because everything would just be one

[Aakash]

When you have an enlightenment experience, you will understand why this whole sentence is only a question for seekers. Committing physical suicide is a tragic death that befalls spiritual seekers who don't have the intent of finding enlightenment for the truth itself. Normally the case for 98% of seekers trying to remove their suffering. So suicide is an option. 

When you seek for truth itself, you can't commit suicide because you'll never know the truth. so its not even an option. However, if conceptual death is the price to pay then that's an acceptable notion. 

After enlightenment you come to realise that it's pointless killing yourself because you will arrive right back in absolute infinity as another avatar, so that "ultimate enlightenment" your talking about, will be sort lived. 

Still there's no evidence to say what happens after death. I've heard story that you make pacts with your spirit guides about what you want to do in the next life.. to learn a certain life lesson. Still this is all superstition depending on where you hear it from. 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Aakash

[Shin]

Just now, Kushu2000 said:

You have a point. But wouldn't living without the "you" make this existence as empty (or as full) as dying? It wouldn't matter what the "physical" content of your perception is because everything would just be one

What do you mean ?

[Aakash]

@Kushu2000

4 minutes ago, Kushu2000 said:

You have a point. But wouldn't living without the "you" make this existence as empty (or as full) as dying? It wouldn't matter what the "physical" content of your perception is because everything would just be one

you are conflating physical death to conceptual death 

they are not the same 

in conceptual death, things actually look more beautiful etc... etc.. 

but you are not wrong at the same time, everything will look the same to you if you stay in a state of stage turquoise enlightenment

[Conrad]

Because "you" want to continue to exist. Die before you die. Enlightenment aka I am God is here and now. Become conscious of this.

[Kushu2000]

Thanks for the answers.. i was mostly just speculating...*runs and sits on a cushion for 2 hours*

[Kushu2000]

But seriously, do you guys think meditation is a useful path to becoming enlightened? Or should i just go the Leo/Martin Ball way and do a shit ton of 5 meo?

[Aakash]

@Kushu2000 not for me to comment on, i only speculate about the benefits of other techniques i haven't used and may write a comment  about it in my insight. However, i only tell advanced people the issue with their techniques. For beginners i have no clue, they all get you to the place you want to go. "enlightenment" . 

the advice i can give is: do which ever one suits you the most with your brain/ thinking type , level of monkey mind, ability to take blind faith of people on, etc.. etc.. like just look at your weaknesses and pick a method that most suits your strength.  

[Shin]

12 minutes ago, Kushu2000 said:

But seriously, do you guys think meditation is a useful path to becoming enlightened? Or should i just go the Leo/Martin Ball way and do a shit ton of 5 meo?

Being conscious while you meditate is what you are all the time.

So the point of meditation is to embody this in your daily life until it becomes natural.

We don't mean that you have to have a blank mind, just to be aware of all your thoughts/emotions and sensations, which is very different.

[AlwaysBeNice]

Enlightenment is not a process separate from integrating your ability to live well and love properly.

Love and meditation are the 2 ways in that sense, psychedelics can lead to meditation/self-understanding and capacity for love.

[SunnyNewDay]

People talking about reincarnation as if they know this is 100% what actually what happens.... 

Often wonder if this is just something people regurgitate after taking some mushrooms and watching some spiritual theory online or if they actually have discovered something that is true.

[Aakash]

@SunnyNewDay Hard to say, it won't matter either way because you will self-decieve yourself as god once again. 

reincarnation is just a term for explaining form/formless 

"you" won't get reincarnate, but "you as formless" as god will split back into form

I'm just telling stories about in-between transitions that may or may not be true. it's not important really, but i once heard some other lecturer talking about this. so i thought it would be viable to talk about, in theory and not illogical. you can youtube many people talking about their imaginary spirit guide lol 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Aakash

[Viking]

From my perspective, one cant reach enlightenment through the ego's desire to reach it. He can reach it only through the inevitability of reaching it when he truly desires truth. It's like a byproduct. Enlightenment, I intuit, happens naturally.

When someone tries to reach enlightenment, how exactly does he do that? meditation? self inquiry? Those are just techniques, without a real desire for truth they will be done mechanically and therefore with no result.

Why even would one want to reach enlightenment? Because he was convinced by Leo or some other guru that he can only be happy being enlightened? The problem is when one tries to reach enlightenment because he just wants to be happy he probably won't achieve it, because he will have the intention in his mind to "reach enlightenment", yet enlightenment is when all intentions disappear.

When one desires truth on the other hand, what he will do is observe the world around him, naturally, he will observe himself, he will try to get to the bottom of how he and the world work, and at some point inevitably he will stumble upon self inquiry, he will start to observe his awareness, etc etc. From that point, when one just looks, clearly, with no agenda, with no intentions, just open to find and figure out what's out there, he will have glimpses of enlightenment.

To your question, when you ask "can't I just kill myself and be enlightened?", I feel like that comes from a desire to "be enlightened"(being happy) and not from a desire to find truth, because If the true desire was truth, you would want to keep living and find out more truth, not only what enlightenment is, but what love is, what reality is, how stuff works, etc. You wouldn't dare to risk missing all of that for an off chance that you will get all the answers when you physically die.

You would then just want to die and "be enlightened" and not to find truth.

*not talking specifically about you, im just addressing the question.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Viking
word

[SunnyNewDay]

5 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@SunnyNewDay Hard to say, it won't matter either way because you will self-decieve yourself as god once again. 

reincarnation is just a term for explaining form/formless 

"you" won't get reincarnate, but "you as formless" as god will split back into form

I'm just telling stories about in-between transitions that may or may not be true. it's not important really, but i once heard some other lecturer talking about this. so i thought it would be viable to talk about, in theory and not illogical. you can youtube many people talking about their imaginary spirit guide lol 

I was a little passive aggressive with my post (sorry) but I find such discourse to be a bit frightening and a bit out of touch when addressing something as serious to human condition like suicide. 

First off because it's frightening to think about when someone is in such a state and even not. I'd say the best way to address this question, especially for people thinking of doing it, is that life is a mystery and that all this is here and those emotions are there and the will to live is incredibly strong, we will die one day so why not let nature take us and see what we can learn while here.

[Forestluv]

@Kushu2000 It’s Good either way.

[Shin]

23 minutes ago, Viking said:

From my perspective, one cant reach enlightenment through the ego's desire to reach it. He can reach it only through the inevitability of reaching it when he truly desires truth. It's like a byproduct. Enlightenment, I intuit, happens naturally.

When someone tries to reach enlightenment, how exactly does he do that? meditation? self inquiry? Those are just techniques, without a real desire for truth they will be done automatically and therefore with no result.

Why even would one want to reach enlightenment? Because he was convinced by Leo or some other guru that he can only be happy being enlightened? The problem is when one tries to reach enlightenment because he just wants to be happy he probably won't achieve it, because he will have the intention in his mind to "reach enlightenment", yet enlightenment is when all intentions disappear.

When one desires truth on the other hand, what he will do is observe the world around him, naturally, he will observe himself, he will try to get to the bottom of how he and the world work, and at some point inevitably he will stumble upon self inquiry, he will start to observe his awareness, etc etc. From that point, when one just looks, clearly, with no agenda, with no intentions, just open to find and figure out what's out there, he will have glimpses of enlightenment.

To your question, when you ask "can't I just kill myself and be enlightened?", I feel like that comes from a desire to "be enlightened"(being happy) and not from a desire to find truth, because If the true desire was truth, you would want to keep living and find out more truth, not only what enlightenment is, but what love is, what reality is, how stuff works, etc. You wouldn't dare to risk missing all of that for an off chance that you will get all the answers when you physically die.

You would then just want to die and "be enlightened" and not to find truth.

*not talking specifically about you, im just addressing the question.

 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

Enlightenment is death of an image of yourself -- death of a concept of yourself.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Joseph Maynor