A moral question about spirituality and money

[Anton Rogachevski]

Hi everyone!

The question is:

Can spirituality have a price? Can you sell spiritual wisdom and turn it into a buisness? Isn't it better to try and give it for free?

This question has bothered me for very long, and I can't seem to reach any conclusion. Dear friends, please share your insights!

Long time no see. I've really missed the discussions here.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Anton Rogachevski

[hamedsf]

You can share your value free or sell it with money, it's totally up to you.

if you're getting money in any value you provide to people, you shouldn't feel guilty about it, because it's yours after all.

you can be a professional self-transcended but simultaneously managing a lucrative business

you can have a business which has both free services and premium services.

in case of LEO, he provides free valuable insights on Youtube and at the same time he has life purpose course, consultation service, booklist. 

but at the end of the day, it's you who will decide what to do with his materials, because the journey of self-actualization is that you realize your own free will and you take the option which suits you the most!

[Knock]

Value has a price. Spiritual wisdom has value. 

If you are providing others with value, it is a disservice to your own humanity to not pay yourself. 

Many people do not respect what is given for free. Sometimes you need to charge to be taken seriously.

[tsuki]

Yes, it can have a price.

A person that teaches spiritual wisdom has to have his or her needs met.
The amount of money that is charged is the measure of:

1. the external needs of that person
2. the value of his or her wisdom on the market

The more external needs the teacher has, the less the teaching is embodied.
Happiness of a truly spiritual person is not dependent on how many Rolls royces the person has. 
There have been reports of people so spiritual that they don't even have to eat anymore (saints, etc).

The more value the teaching has, the more practical it is. That is the measure of embodiment as well.
Embodied spirituality does not come from rejection of the material world, but from exhaustion.
There is nothing to accomplish, so it is transcended.

So, what happens with the surplus that comes from the difference between the needs and value?
A teacher that truly walks his talk would invest it for the good of others.

Edited July 10, 2019 by tsuki

[Anton Rogachevski]

@hamedsf @Keyhole @tsuki @Knock

Thank you dearly for your input fellow travelers. There's much truth in what you say.

Allow me to share my current view about it:

A zen master would say that he has no value to offer, he can't teach you anything you don't know.

I think it's up to the system we inhabit, right now we live in a world of money, and so it has to be kept in motion. In that kind of system one has almost no choice but to recieve payment for most services in order to live.

On the other hand you can have a secondary mutual arrangement of exchange with no goals of profit, but a sharing and receiving of energy which forms a self sustaining circle, where money isn't necessary.

So in short the answer is: It's relative to the current state of affairs.

Also, in order to be able to learn and teach full time one must recieve support from sponsors.

The confusion could all be rooted in deep unconscious low self esteem issues where one believes he doesn't have enough to offer in order to charge for it.

[Shadowraix]

Being Conscious not only means to treat others well like you'd want yourself but to treat yourself well. There is a balance to be had here. 

[Aakash]

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

A teacher that truly walks his talk would invest it for the good of others.

its more like, there is nothing else to do, your in nirvana, and on a physical plain.. What would be left to think about? nothing, like you would understand why the trees are green etc. lol because its physical, you could brush up on minor things and you could not. But ultimately, there's no rule saying a teacher must do it. Its more like you start loving everything and so you do it for the "one" existence

[tsuki]

4 minutes ago, Aakash said:

But ultimately, there's no rule saying a teacher must do it. Its more like you start loving everything and so you do it for the "one" existence

The rule saying the teacher must do it is simply the fact that there's nothing else to do.
Love has no opposites.

[Aakash]

@tsuki yeah lol thats it imagine being 30 and have nothing to do, but you don't need anything to do at the same time. 

Interesting, have you reached existence yet? 

[tsuki]

1 minute ago, Aakash said:

Interesting, have you reached existence yet? 

I'm not gonna feed your curiosity, you hungry little squirrel. Go meditate.

Edited July 10, 2019 by tsuki

[Aakash]

@tsuki AHAHA please man! you finally made me understand existence is nothing! it doesn't even matter about consciousness, its prior to consciousness, therefore prior to everything lol. Its the neti-neti of everything and nothing. 

 

[tsuki]

@Aakash What do you want from me?

[Aakash]

@tsuki Lol ! i just realised you are consciousness, you are me lol. Existence is only being! therefore what could i possibly ask you for! like there's nothing you can give me. If you give me knowledge you have enlightened me. That would make you enlightened but you are existence, not consciousness. 

LOL some comfort would be nice, i just realised my entire life is a lie lol! like all of it, lol i've been conceptualising about something that isn't even there. Like it exist, but it doesn't. It exists in a paradox, existence is outside. 

so YES I would like some comfort from your consciousness lol! hit me with some, which is just myself trying to comfort myself LOL sounds so stupid! lol now i actually wonder what it would be like for an enlightened person to have sex. Would there even be a point to it. Still it would be infinite intelligence playing itself along. So in a way i feel happy that life is a dream playing out lol. I don't know mixed emotions 

tsuki need some comforting man. 

LOL being in reality literally feels like your in a cult , your in a cult created by yourself for yourself .Thats how i feel now, traumatized lol, i might aswell undergo an ego death because i see am imagining a psuedo- existence. Like i'm imagining what it is conceptually 

LOL conceptual enlightenments, make's sense now! 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Aakash

[tsuki]

@Aakash Here:

[Nahm]

@Anton Rogachevski

Great to hear from ya, hope all is well!

The answer is unequivocally no.

  

 

[Anton Rogachevski]

19 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Anton Rogachevski

Great to hear from ya, hope all is well!

The answer is unequivocally no.

  

 

Hello dear Nahm, good to hear from ya!

I would love to hear more about your proccess of reaching this conclusion.

2 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

Being Conscious not only means to treat others well like you'd want yourself but to treat yourself well. There is a balance to be had here. 

Aren't you already treating "yourself" well when you treat "others" well?

@Aakash

Hey man! Please no derailing and unrelated chatter.

[DrewNows]

Learn from miss teal money bags Swan herself ?

 

this might be useful too 

Edited July 10, 2019 by DrewNows

[Jkris]

@Anton Rogachevski

Traditionally spirituality is given free for sincere seekers.The guru is not supposed to ask money.Not as a demand.

Nisargadatta Maharaj never asked for a single penny.He just had satsangs to sincere seekers.

Nor Ramana Maharishi.

Nor Ramakrishna Paramahamsa.

Nor in vippasana meditation retreat.

But to do service what ever comes as voluntary donation can be accepted.

[Anton Rogachevski]

@DrewNows  I shall check it.

 

@Jkris Thank you dearly for your input. Donations are a good idea, perhaps even of spiritual meaning.

[ajasatya]

@Anton Rogachevski Staying alive has a cost and you need to be alive and dedicate time to format and share your message. If you don't want do do it for free (as I do it here along with many others), deliberately "wasting time and thus losing money", you should at least have a self-sufficient business plan.

The most important part is being aware of what you are doing. Develop a crystal clear vision and don't try to fool yourself or anyone else.