What distinguishes an "insight" from a belief?

[ajasatya]

From the book of my past experiences.

Belief I used to hold: I am a poor worthless little creature.

Insight that healed me: I am God's Consciousness and Creativity itself. I can shape myself as I wish.

A belief is groundless. An insight is grounded on deep experiences of awakening.

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, lmfao said:

@Leo GuraWhat do you mean by "understand" here exactly? Most of the time the word "understand" is used in reference to a conceptual grasp of something. So in what sense is the word "understand" meaningful here? 

See, you don't understand understanding

[lmfao]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

See, you don't understand understanding

Touche

@Shiva @Nahm @ajasatyaall good points. Insights feel different to beliefs. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by lmfao

[Charlotte]

For me personally and insight goes like this... (All without thought)

*Realisation*

Me: "fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck" (massive lightbulb moment)

I shudder within at the realisation of this truth. 

And then laugh at how much I had missed it previously.

[SOUL]

Well, insight is that illuminating effect in the experience of consciousness

Belief is the trust one exercises in the experience of consciousness.

[abrakamowse]

@lmfao I am reading some pdf's that I found really helpful and they give a really good explanation of what is intuition or insights.

I will paste it here and I will post the links to those pdf's if you are interested in reading them. I like how they clearly explain how enlightenment works.

Quote

One learns to focus the attention on one's breathing, and is able to monitor its duration and frequency. At the same time, one has learnt to halt the flow of fantasy, to end a particular stream of thought at will.

One is sitting quite still, the breathing quiet, relaxed and natural, and one is able to move the attention from the breathing to the stream of thoughts at will. This is a position of great ambiguity, and many wonderful experiences are possible in this state. It is very difficult to concentrate on the breathing for sustained periods; always the thoughts drift off.

Equally if one exercises self-discipline and ends the stream of fantasy by becoming aware of what one is thinking, it is very hard to restrict the thoughts to one's breathing. In that experience of pivoting between arid fantasy and pure clarity of awareness of breathing lies the seed of profound transformation of consciousness.

If one continues in this practice of alternating between simple awareness of the present moment and exercising conscious control over the flow of thoughts by simply ending the current thought, one gradually becomes aware of a different type of thought. This is a product of the sixth sense, insight or intuition. These thoughts are quite different from the thoughts of ordinary consciousness. They are not a reflection on reality, as are ordinary thoughts; rather they are a direct experiencing of reality.

Consciousness and reality are in the process of integrating. These thoughts are an organic part of reality. They reflect an awareness of reality in a particular consciousness, in a form appropriate to the level of clarity and terms of reference of that person at that place and time. The experience of these thoughts can be couched within any religious or spiritual framework; equally it is accessible to those who operate without such a framework, such as atheists or agnostics.

Here you have links to those pdf's if you are interested.

http://www.theimplicatetechnologycentre.co.uk/

[lmfao]

On 10/07/2019 at 6:19 AM, Leo Gura said:

See, you don't understand understanding

@Leo GuraBut how can understanding exist if there is no one for there to understand anything? How aren't these insights mere thoughts which trick you into leaving the realm of not knowing and pure perception? 

 

This might be a on a tangent. I remember a while ago on your blog about recent awakenings, you said that at some point, skepticism must stop and one arrives at the "truth". And you mentioned that you are well aware of the fact that it looks like you've decided to just cling to something since you got bored/tired of seeking. But I don't really get with what you're saying. Like what does it mean stop skepticism? Isn't the "final" state one can enter a state of pure not-knowing? 

Edited July 30, 2019 by lmfao

[FoxFoxFox]

@lmfao Real insight is not known through words, either as a mental narrative inside or speech uttered to others. Insight is pure knowing - an inherent quality of universe. Beliefs are almost always verbal. That is their foundation is based on logic, reasoning etc. no matter how outlandish the particular train of thought might be.

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, lmfao said:

@Leo GuraBut how can understanding exist if there is no one for there to understand anything? How aren't these insights mere thoughts which trick you into leaving the realm of not knowing and pure perception? 

Since the universe is consciousness, consciousness is capable of self-understanding and insight into the truth of things.

God is able to recognize itself and this ability is present all throughout everyday life, science, and thought. Yes, thoughts can be tricky, but thoughts also can contain kernels of truth. How is that possible? Because the powr of insight is baked into language. Language is not just a bunch of scribbles on a page. Language is made sense of or understood by a much more profound quality of the universe.

Perception is not the only game in town. The universe doesn't just perceive, is can also understand.

Understanding is how you're able to make sense of the things I say and see the truth or falsehood in various sayings. But it goes deeper than language. You can understand how to turn on a faucet. What do you think that is? Don't take that for granted! You could not turn on a facucet without some level of true understanding.

Quote

But I don't really get with what you're saying. Like what does it mean stop skepticism? Isn't the "final" state one can enter a state of pure not-knowing? 

It means that once you become conscious of the Absolute, don't then fall back into doubting it.

Like: "Well, was that really God? Maybe I'm not God after all? Maybe I was just hallucinating?"

No! You are God! Stop doubting that. Don't make doubt your God. That would be putting the cart before the horse.

[Key Elements]

If you hear a term such as "Riding the Ox Backwards," are you able to relate to it by your experience? Did something happen to you, and then this term made complete sense to you? If not, if you can't refer to it according to your genuine experience, then it's just a belief.

[lmfao]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Since the universe is consciousness, consciousness is capable of self-understanding and insight into the truth of things.

God is able to recognize itself and this ability is present all throughout everyday life, science, and thought. Yes, thoughts can be tricky, but thoughts also can contain kernels of truth. How is that possible? Because the powr of insight is baked into language. Language is not just a bunch of scribbles on a page. Language is made sense of or understood by a much more profound quality of the universe.

Perception is not the only game in town. The universe doesn't just perceive, is can also understand.

Understanding is how you're able to make sense of the things I say and see the truth or falsehood in various sayings. But it goes deeper than language. You can understand how to turn on a faucet. What do you think that is? Don't take that for granted! You could not turn on a facucet without some level of true understanding.

The universe can understand on top of perceive too, hmmm. Whenever people talk about meditation or practice non-duality, the overall impression I've got is that it's all about reaching a place of pure perception. You're just seeing what is. Are you saying there's something beyond "what is"? But how can that be, if everything that "is" is just "is"?

I'm guessing it's maybe possible to deeply/vividly see instantaneous mechanisms of creation at higher levels of perception, and that's why you talk about understanding. This is far beyond any direct experience ive had ,so yeah. 

I wonder, what is going on when I'm able to know how to turn on a facet. The power of insight baked into language eh? I probably won't get that for a while. 

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It means that once you become conscious of the Absolute, don't then fall back into doubting it.

Like: "Well, was that really God? Maybe I'm not God after all? Maybe I was just hallucinating?"

No! You are God! Stop doubting that. Don't make doubt your God. That would be putting the cart before the horse.

Ok, I guess I see your point more. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by lmfao

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, lmfao said:

Are you saying there's something beyond "what is"? But how can that be, if everything that "is" is just "is"?

LOL

Yes! There is INSIGHT and UNDERSTANDING.

You cannot reduce those two to anything more fundamental.

You must have an insight into what insight is. You do not understand what understanding is. Just notice that.

This requires serious contemplation. It will not be explained to you in words.

With deep enough insight you will realize that perception isn't even a thing. Perception is actually Being/Truth. "Perception" is a dualiatic notion, so be careful with just throwing that word around.

A good way to contemplate what insight is, is to bring to mind specific examples of insight. For example, an insight was necessary for you to realize that whole numbers go up to infinity. At some point when you were a child you started counting: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... and then at some piont it hit you: This can go on forever!!! That was an insight.

Insights are often quite ordinary.

I remember vividly when I was a kid the moment when I realized why a penis gets hard. It was a massive epiphany: "Oh, it needs to be hard to fit inside a hole!!! Wow! Of course!"

That was quite an insight!

Nothing is obvious until you have an insight about it.

Your birth was an insight. One day you had the insight: "Oh, I exist!" And on that day you came into being as a human.

Insight is a mysterious thing. Which is why we call this mysticism.

[lmfao]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

LOL

Yes! There is INSIGHT and UNDERSTANDING.

You cannot reduce those two to anything more fundamental.

You must have an insight into what insight is. You do not understand what understanding is. Just notice that.

This requires serious contemplation. It will not be explained to you in words.

With deep enough insight you will realize that perception isn't even a thing. Perception is actually Being/Truth. "Perception" is a dualiatic notion, so be careful with just throwing that word around.

Alright, I will take that notice on board. 

Quote

A good way to contemplate what insight is, is to bring to mind specific examples of insight. For example, an insight was necessary for you to realize that whole numbers go up to infinity. At some point when you were a child you started counting: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... and then at some piont it hit you: This can go on forever!!! That was an insight.

Insights are often quite ordinary.

I remember vividly when I was a kid the moment when I realized why a penis gets hard. It was a massive epiphany: "Oh, it needs to be hard to fit inside a hole!!! Wow! Of course!"

That was quite an insight! 

Nothing is obvious until you have an insight about it.

Your birth was an insight. One day you had the insight: "Oh, I exist!" And on that day you came into being as a human.

Insight is a mysterious thing. Which is why we call this mysticism.

Ok, this is good food for contemplation.

Also, nice example lol.

Edited July 31, 2019 by lmfao

[Truthority]

All language and words bleed into the great ocean of experience so no need to get too caught up in silly definitions. Go deeper, into the sounds of words and the rhythm. Eventually you get to the source and all life becomes this great symphony. Every emotion and mood and dream and action is part of the show.

All art is an exploration of that. 

You are my god and I am yours. 

Thank you