msg for americans: VOTE BERNIE

[Mezanti]

If you're voting for any other candidate you're either really misinformed or ill intentioned. I wont bother going into the details, go check out Seculartalk or DavidPackman for those.

another statement:

the right is ridiculous in how closed minded and selfish it is, it is willing to lie about reality and convince not only others but also themselves in order to create self-serving yet simultaneously for that very reason, nation destructive regimes and systems. 

[Zizzero]

Yeah! Don't even bother thinking for yourself! As we all know there are only two types of opinions:

1. Those held by @Mezanti  and

2. Wrong ones

Why vote for who you like, if you can just vote whatever other people tell you to?

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Mezanti said:

If you're voting for any other candidate you're either really misinformed or ill intentioned. I wont bother going into the details, go check out Seculartalk or DavidPackman for those.

another statement:

the right is ridiculous in how closed minded and selfish it is, it is willing to lie about reality and convince not only others but also themselves in order to create self-serving yet simultaneously for that very reason, nation destructive regimes and systems. 

I agree. But you should give the details as to why Bernie is the best candidate. Otherwise people will just think you're being opinionated and trying to push your opinion.

But you are correct that, if someone values bringing society out of corruption and into a state where politicians work toward the greater good for all people, that Bernie is the best we have right now. And anyone who values politicians working for the people, would objectively be unwise to vote anyone in the race who isn't Bernie Sanders. He's the best and most electable candidate we have toward those ends.

Now, if someone values corruption and thinks corruption is a good thing, then you could also say that Bernie is objectively the worst. So, depending on what people value, there can be differences in opinion. But if a person values getting rid of corruption in politics, then objectively Bernie's the right candidate. No opinions here. Just fact.

So, I would make an edit to your post. I would say it's those who are misinformed among working people who work against their own self-interest and defend a system that doesn't work for them. This comes from lack of political education and people not really knowing what's going on.

But it's pure self-interest for those who are billionaires and have an indifference to working people. They know that, in order to maintain the status quo and/or enrich their pocketbook, they will need to buy out politicians by financing their campaigns. So, someone like Bernie Sanders poses a threat to them because he is not bought and if he were president would be playing hardball and rescinding support for politicians who are bought. So, they will try to smear him. And the mainstream media outlets will do the same.

But yes, objectively, Bernie Sanders is the most suitable candidate for making changes that impact human health and prosperity in a positive way. And he's the one that had the most effective strategy for getting those progressive platforms implemented. So, if someone cares most about society coming more into alignment with health, harmony, fairness and prosperity; they would certainly be wisest to vote for Bernie.

But if someone wants more of the status quo and corruption in politics, then they should vote for Biden (or any of the other corporate centrists). That way between them and Trump, they are guaranteed to get their wish of more corruption. It would just come down to what flavor of corruption they prefer. 

So, it's a matter of opinion relative to whether someone values corruption or getting rid of corruption. But for those who don't value corruption, the choice is clear.

[The Dopamine Cleric]

All of you are blind except Zizzero.

 

How about going back to stage one on non-duality, and learning how different types of systems need each other to survive.

Edited July 6, 2019 by The Dopamine Cleric

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, The Dopamine Cleric said:

All of you are blind except Zizzero.

How about going back to stage one on non-duality, and learning how different types of systems need each other to survive.

So, are you making the argument that the corruption in the political/economic system that we have is necessary for survival? 

Are you one of the ones I mentioned that values corruption?

[The Dopamine Cleric]

How about that people will always vote for what they think is the best candidate based on their awareness.

 

 

Trying to get someone to vote for a candidate who doesn't understand you is like trying to grow a tree without a seed.

 

Go cultivate awareness in a community and you don't have to tell them what to do. They will always make the right decision.

 

Aswell, got get some yourself. Go get some Brawndo. It's got electrolytes 

Edited July 6, 2019 by The Dopamine Cleric

[Emerald]

6 minutes ago, The Dopamine Cleric said:

How about that people will always vote for what they think is the best candidate based on their awareness.

That's true that people will always vote based on their current level of awareness. But this doesn't mean that things they're voting for are equally healthy.

For example, if we're voting on the type of diet that we eat. And some people are unaware and are voting for the Krispy Kreme doughnut diet, then this poses a threat to human health. So, it's very important that people become more aware of what they're actually voting for and who is most objectively in alignment with human health.

So, what I'm saying here is that Bernie is objectively the candidate who is most in alignment with molding society toward human health and prosperity because he is the most dedicated to breaking up corruption. So, I'm saying that, if a person values human wellness, then it's objectively wisest to vote for Bernie.

This is a post precisely for raising awareness, so that people can see the value in voting this way. And once people are aware, then they're not going to vote against their own best interests. 

11 minutes ago, The Dopamine Cleric said:

Trying to get someone to vote for a candidate who doesn't understand you is like trying to grow a tree without a seed. 

Thus... this post. I'm trying to bring understanding with what I've written so that people don't get bogged down in opinions and can instead reframe the situation in a more objective and factual way.

That's why I said, a person can value corruption and a person can value getting rid of corruption. Those are opinions.

But if a person values getting rid of corruption as the desired end, we can then extrapolate some facts for how best to bring about that end in an objective way. So, we can objectively vet candidates based on this desired outcome. And if we're vetting candidates based on how dedicated they are and informed they are about breaking up corruption, then Bernie Sanders is objectively the best candidate by these measures.

But if we were valuing the candidate based on how corrupt they are, then we could go back in each candidates record and quantify how corrupt each one is based on how many corrupt acts they've done and how many people it's affected negatively. And then we could make an objective decision that way too.

So, as I was dovetailing off the original post's absolutism about Bernie Sanders, I was lighting on the perspective with which it is quite an absolute. And in order for it to be an absolute, there has to be an end goal. So, if that end goal is to abolish corruption in politics, then objectively and absolutely Bernie is the candidate that's most focused on this issue and has been consistent on this issue for his entire 40 year career.

19 minutes ago, The Dopamine Cleric said:

Go cultivate awareness in a community and you don't have to tell them what to do. They will always make the right decision.

That's exactly what I'm doing right now.

20 minutes ago, The Dopamine Cleric said:

Aswell, got get some yourself. Go get some Brawndo. It's got electrolytes 

Perhaps you should cultivate some awareness yourself. You seem to be applying the system of SD onto things, and then thinking that each stage will add up to an equally healthy, harmonious, and prosperous society for all people. So, your end goal is to basically green-light everything because SD validates all perspectives.

And while it's true that all the stages in SD are valid and important, not all of them yield the same results. Currently, our society is mostly Orange, and there are very real problems that affect real people that stem from this. So, it's important that we're not intellectual about these issues. If we value living in a healthy society that works for all people, we need to set our end goal as that. And objectively, some politicians will do a better job than others. And some SD levels are more appropriate.

In order to do more than just intellectually masturbate about what's valid as a perspective, we need to be more results oriented because people are suffering and our society is suffering. And that's because of corruption. So, we don't need a perspective where someone is using Spiral Dynamics to greenlight things that are objectively harmful for people, based on the relative truth that all SD levels are valid.

If we're considering the validity of perspectives, then YES all SD levels are valid. They are important developmental milestones. And we shouldn't demonize people for them. 

But if we're instead considering what's healthiest for people, then the truth that all SD levels are valid is just being used to maintain homestasis and ensure the perpetuation of the corruption in the current system. When instead, it would objectively be much healthier for society to tackle these issues head-on in grassroots movement and through electing progressive anti-corruption politicians like Bernie Sanders.

[The Dopamine Cleric]

Who defines what corruption is?

 

Corruption for one is hidden virtue for others.

 

I understand that you are holding a large plate of the inherent flaws in the political system and asking "How do we fix this?" The problem is that a democracy requires awareness to be utilized from the bottom upwards instead of the top down.

Thus, actors in positions that have charge of their elected office will be voted out of office or pressured to face their own decisions. Cockroaches and false profits scatter when you turn the lights on.

Turn the lights on. Get some Republicans high on drugs and a black girlfriend. Get Democrats out of their metropolis to go hunt for food in the wilderness with a rifle. Any advice is false without context. Get them to notice the problems around them. Get them to start asking questions. As soon as a politician starts spouting rhetoric, they will see through it. When the pressure is on and they do not fulfill their promises, they will be held accountable. Show them the evidence of their deeds. It's hard work. It's not as simple as telling everyone to "Vote this way." Telling everyone a "Quick fix" is actually allowing corruption to grow rather than getting rid of it.

 

As well, your pissing contest is transparent. You are more attached to YOUR DESIRES than the actual totality of the system itself.

Finally, If I remember correctly, this community is suppose to have NO POLITICS IN THIS FORUM. Perhaps an Administrator can shine a light on these rules since I myself am afraid of overstepping bounds on Leo's website.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by The Dopamine Cleric

[Emerald]

Just now, The Dopamine Cleric said:

Who defines what corruption is? Corruption for one is hidden virtue for others.

This is what I meant by intellectual masturbation. You're debating the term corruption and what it means and playing devil's advocate as opposed to actually valuing having a healthy society. So, this is a really terrible question toward that end, because you're introducing nuance where it's strategically important to draw blacks and whites. Otherwise, that nuance can then be weaponized by those who are corrupt, and they can hide just outside of whatever definition of corruption is given.

But let's call corruption anything that detracts from the health, prosperity, and functionality of an entire society for the benefit of the few. 

So, corruption is a hidden virtue... for those who are corrupt. But it is not a virtue for society as a whole, and that's my entire point.

4 minutes ago, The Dopamine Cleric said:

I understand that you are hold a large plate of the inherent flaws in the political system and asking "How do we fix this?" The problem is that a democracy requires awareness to be utilized from the bottom upwards instead of the top down.

Thus, actors in positions that have charge of their elected office will be voted out of office or pressured to face their own decisions. Cockroaches and false profits scatter when you turn the lights on.

Yes, democracy DOES require awareness to be utilized from the bottom upward, and that's what I'm trying to help with right now. I'm giving people a perspective that helps them understand the roots of many of our problems, as well as a good step in the right direction for addressing those problems. And it's the strongest movement going right now for this. So, I'm making others aware, so that they're more likely to get on board and add power and numbers to this movement.

There are still so many who are unaware. So, this post is to raise awareness.

And that's exactly why Bernie Sanders' campaign is important because he has spear-headed so much grass roots awareness and support. And now, all the Democratic candidates that are up are having to tailor their campaigns to seem more progressive, even if they don't mean it. So, he's brought so many issues that few people were aware of a decade ago, into the front and center of public political discourse. 

He is the one turning the lights on, and it's helpful if we help him do so. 

What's not helpful is if we mentally mastrubate about what corruption means while 30,000 plus Americans dies each year because of the nature of the healthcare system and the rich get richer and poor get poorer.

It's time we stop intellectually bypassing these issues by making everything about a transcendent understanding of perspectives. We really need results, and not everything yields the same results.

If we value results, we need to be focused toward functionality instead of getting lost in all these higher up perspectives that are appropriate for higher paradigmatic endeavors like consciousness work, but are piss-poor and totally inappropriate for working within the limitations of the relative perspective and getting certain results that will benefit people and the planet at large.

15 minutes ago, The Dopamine Cleric said:

Turn the lights on. Get some Republicans high on drugs and a black girlfriend. Get Democrats out of their metropolis to go hunt for food in the wilderness with a rifle. Any advice is false without context. Get them to notice the problems around them. Get them to start asking questions. As soon as a politician starts spouting rhetoric, they will see through it. When the pressure is on and they do not fulfill their promises, they will be held accountable. Show them the evidence of their deeds. It's hard work. It's not as simple as telling everyone to "Vote this way." Telling everyone a "Quick fix" is actually allowing corruption to grow rather than getting rid of it.

None of these things will work to address the root causes of these problems. This is thinking about pespectives in a very narrow and surface-level way. It's clear that you're not really seeing what makes the conservative paradigm tick or the liberal paradigm tick. They're a very complex system of lenses form which to look at the world. And these systems are as vast and complex as an entire castle built in the sky.

So, if you think that getting a conservative high and getting them a black girlfriend will help them break down their castle, then you're just foolish. They'll just incorporate these things into their castle. But the fundamentals of their perspective will stay the same. The same goes for getting liberals to go out and hunt with a rifle. It's not going to topple their entire castle and help them build a new one.

And even if this did work, the corruption in the world isn't caused by individual conservative and liberals. Most of the corruption comes from the most powerful and wealthy people buying the government and rigging it against the average person. So, getting conservatives a black girlfriend isn't going to help with that issue. Plus, a lot of racist scapegoating that goes on comes from poor white people thinking that minorities and immigrants are stealing their jobs and stuff like that. So, there is an economic root to racism, and this works in favor of those trotting out the corruption.

But again, as I've said before, this entire post is to get people focused toward the root causes of the problem. And then to show that Bernie Sanders is the best person to elect if we want to have a person dismantling these corrupt patterns from the highest seat in the land.

Practice thinking more systemically, and you will see clearly what's needed is to focus on bringing awareness to people. And that doesn't have to do with surface level stuff you're talking about. It has to be practical for most people to be interested. And it has to be focused toward the roots.

Also, relative to the comments about the pissing contest, I may have some ego in this. I am human. But overall, I am just really passionate about resolving these issues. It deeply upsets me to see people fighting against their own best interests. And I know the best antidote to that is awareness. And drawing blacks and whites, instead of getting bogged down in opinions is very important to raising awareness. Otherwise people get lost in nuance and they lose sight of what's helpful.

Also, relative to the politics on the forum thing, I'm not 100% sure on what the policy is. But my post is more about awareness than about politics. So, I think it fits into the discourse of this forum quite well.

 

 

[The Dopamine Cleric]

@Leo Gura I'm really interested in YOUR insight sir.

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, The Dopamine Cleric said:

@Leo Gura I'm really interested in YOUR insight sir.

Do you mean you're curious about what @Leo Gura thinks about the content of my post or that you're curious as to whether or not I'm violating community guidelines?

If it's the former, I'm pretty sure that Leo and I have roughly the same perspective on this. If it's the latter, I'm not sure. 

[The Dopamine Cleric]

Both. It will be a wonderful topic if moderated correctly. I'd love to find a non-antagonizing way to discuss politics especially in this day and age.

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, The Dopamine Cleric said:

Both. It will be a wonderful topic if moderated correctly. I'd love to find a non-antagonizing way to discuss politics especially in this day and age.

Well, the non-antagonizing thing won't happen. What you have is two different paradigms fighting it out, that can't see eye to eye. In fact, it's not even a good thing for them to see eye-to-eye because that would put a stopper in progress. 

Take the antagonism happening now as a sign of growing pains. They're uncomfortable but necessary for progress. 

Polarization always happens before growth, even in the way our cells split. If it stings, you know it's working.

 

[Leo Gura]

I have already endorsed Bernie so there's not much for me to say.

My general advice on politics is: vote for the most conscious person who stands a chance of winning.

Bernie has the most progressive platform and is the least corrupted by corporations and lobbyists. He also has the longest track record of being progressive. Many other progressives are only skin deep.

Telling people who to vote for is sorta pointless because people will vote no higher than their own ego will allow.

[pluto]

@Mezanti How do you know your votes actually matter? Those who vote decide nothing, those who check the votes decide everything.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, pluto said:

@Mezanti How do you know your votes actually matter? Those who vote decide nothing, those who check the votes decide everything.

That's a terrible idea to put into peoples minds. We want more people voting, not less.

American elections are often very close, meaning that every vote is significant.

Trump won due to about 70,000 votes in key states. Bush vs Gore was even closer.

[pluto]

@Leo Gura I agree but still, how do we know these aren't just fabricated numbers by those who check the votes?

Unless conscious people actually start winning in all areas, i would then start to believe these systems are no longer corrupted because based on my observation, it always seems to be the most illogical case that wins, especially when it comes to the US and countries with similar systems. 

Trump winning (The "Presidential" Election) is a prime example of this idiocracy, i doubt people are that ignorant collectively to vote for someone like him, No offense.

Russia for example has a great leader that is truly intelligent, thinks critically and doesn't seem to be a puppet. Now, maybe their systems are different and forgive my ignorance when it comes to politics but that is what i believe how a leader should be and behave. I don't really get involved or know much about politics but i have always seen this pattern among countries like US and of similar systematic designs and unless i see change, i am not impressed or convinced that the voting system is actually what it is and we are actually effecting its overall end result.

Similar nonsense has been happening here in Australia, The Queen sends one of her Knights and completely takes over the system breaking all the laws we were sworn to obey? Yeah cool story bro, even without a vote our prime minister got replaced just like that and then they tried to stage a vote at a later date to make it more believable. They even fine you if you don't vote to make it appear like our votes actually count.

Its like i am in a world void of critical thinking where everyone just swallows whatever they are thrown and calls it a day.

My attitude may be wrong but my words hold value.

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by pluto

[The Dopamine Cleric]

Consciousness is key. Looking into voter fraud and spreading awareness. Getting back to paper-ballots. Disconnecting from echo-chambers on social media. Ect. Ect. Ect.

 

I personally feel in my intuition more promise from Tulsi Gabbard than any other candidate. However, she is getting mothballed by less conscious statist types on the left.

I agree with the middle path with Bernie.

1.Tulsi

2.Yang

3.Bernie

4.Keep Trump and let his psychological crowbar sales techniques keep shining a light with his arrogance how corrupt the system is so that both the left and the right will raise in consciousness and evolve to counter it and learn how to connect with rural Americans through his actions. 

I see Trump in the light of highly aligned lower chakras and mentally retarded upper chakras. The desires and awareness of the entire body politic is the most important thing and what decides the outcome. AGAIN, consciousness is key. Beating your fists won't solve anything. My opinions are worthless. Only the truth from inside is the guiding principle. Your own answers are the truth. Think garden and not tree. You are a product of the system.

 

 

Hating someone for being stupid is nothing more than hating yourself.

 

And remember.

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by The Dopamine Cleric

[Leo Gura]

@pluto You seem to have confused the American voting system with Russia's.

As far as we know, America's voting system is pretty good.

Be careful that you don't misuse skepticism to do more harm than good. The point is not to doubt everything under the sun but to doubt those parts which are false. Doubting truth is like shooting yourself in the foot.

Russia does not have a great leader. They have an utterly corrupt mafia state run by a crypto dictator. You have no idea how bad things are in Russia. Any politician there who seriously goes against Putin will get assassinated or jailed.

[CreamCat]

The real test for Bernie is to watch him govern china as the general secretary of communist party of china.

China's general secretaries tend to become corrupted by power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping made himself into a lifetime dictator after becoming the general secretary.

It's possible that politicians change their shapes in different countries.

Edited July 6, 2019 by CreamCat