What stage is Elliot Hulse at?

[intrastellar]

8 hours ago, Emerald said:

But he also has shown recently a lot of stage Red/Blue to him in that he's very big on the gender difference thing, and even implied that it may be good to stop women from voting. The reason why he said this was basically that society is worse now because men used do men stuff and women used do women stuff, and now that we all do the same things that's caused so many problems. And when the interviewer said to him something like, 'Certainly equality is good in the basic ways like voting, right?' And Elliot responded by saying something that dodged answering the question directly but implied that perhaps we should 'be open minded' and consider rescinding those rights from women.

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

LOL

While we're at it, why not just rewind the clock to pre-Civil War days?

The good ol' days when life was simple and no one caused problems.

Don't follow such fools.

 

So open mindedness is only good if it doesn't interfere with your or your groups self-interest or your ideology? Aren't you two preaching open mindedness all the time? And now you're ridiculing it because you don't like the direction it could lead?

Eliott Hulse in questioning the value of - let's call it 'the accomplishments of feminism' - follows the same rationale that was used here earlier to question the value of 'being alpha and getting what you want': 

23 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@themovement  They get what they want but they don't get what they truly need, that's a difference. 

 

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And what good does that do them?

 

[bejapuskas]

@intrastellar  Why are you talking about open-mindedness? Don't you see what is happening to women around the world? Do you think toxic masculinity helps with it? That's why you go to school, to learn about history and to see which things simply don't work. Trying to become alpha will not help you to live the good life.

[Iksander]

On 7/4/2019 at 9:16 PM, Moreira said:

I think Elliot is the Iron.

And Leo the brown pill, lol

This had me in fits of laughter

[intrastellar]

Just now, bejapuskas said:

@intrastellar  Why are you talking about open-mindedness? Don't you see what is happening to women around the world? Do you think toxic masculinity helps with it? That's why you go to school, to learn about history and to see which things simply don't work. Trying to become alpha will not help you to live the good life.

That's beside the point.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, intrastellar said:

Eliott Hulse in questioning the value of - let's call it 'the accomplishments of feminism' - follows the same rationale that was used here earlier to question the value of 'being alpha and getting what you want'

A false equivalency.

Women fighting repression for the right to vote is not equivalent to men repressing women and their right to vote.

[intrastellar]

44 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

A false equivalency.

Women fighting repression for the right to vote is not equivalent to men repressing women and their right to vote.

You assume that Elliot is trying to oppress women and their right to vote. I don't necessarily think he is.

And I didn't say "Women fighting repression for the right to vote" is equivalent to "men repressing women and their right to vote".

I said questioning the value of 'the accomplishments of feminism' follows the same rationale as question the value of 'being alpha and getting what you want': The idea that what you want and what you need (or even what's best for you) is not necessarily the same.

Edited July 6, 2019 by intrastellar

[Forestluv]

@intrastellar Elliott undercut women oppression by doubting their right to vote. The right to vote is one of the clearest and extreme examples of oppression. It’s a very short putt and Elliott missed it. The failure to clearly acknowledge this indicates Elliott is unable to make the distinction between oppressed and oppressor.   

These types of underlying suggestions are a manipulative effort for regressive men to maintain power and privilege. It will subconsciously resonate with some men below green on the SD scale. In particular, those with unhealthy red and blue conditioning.

[intrastellar]

6 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@intrastellar Elliott undercut women oppression by doubting their right to vote. The right to vote is one of the clearest and extreme examples of oppression. It’s a very short put and Elliott missed it. The failure to clearly acknowledge this indicates Elliott is unable to make the distinction between oppressed and oppressor.   

These types of underlying suggestions are a manipulative effort for regressive men to maintain power and privilege. It will subconsciously resonate with some men below green on the SD scale. In particular, those with unhealthy red and blue conditioning.

Being open minded necessarily includes being able to doubt and question things that seem obvious - even things like womens right to vote. That doesn't mean he actually wants to take that right away from women. You just assume the worst. 

[bejapuskas]

@intrastellar  Try imagining yourself in the shoes of a woman, whose rights to vote are about to be taken away. Also this used to be like that in the past, but we have evolved into a more conscious society since then. Also, I doubt, that the right to vote has anything to do with the healthiness of your masculinty, because men develop their personality before they can even vote, so this is just a contradictory theory.

[intrastellar]

@bejapuskas Again - thats besides my point. I'm not here to argue if women should have a right to vote. If you want my opinion on this the short answer is a strong yes - men and women should have equal rights. And I can understand that someone questioning that might feel threatening to a woman.

Im talking about open mindedness. It's easy to be open minded if it's in line with your ideals but not so easy if it threatens your self interest or agenda - but it's valueble nontheless. But you won't get any value out of something that you're reacting against by riddiculing, demonizing and assuming the worst.

[bejapuskas]

@intrastellar  If this is what open-mindedness means to you, you will go crazy pretty soon  

[intrastellar]

@bejapuskas Why do you think so? What does open mindedness mean to you?

[bejapuskas]

@intrastellar  I can use open-mindedness to learn from the most bizzare perspectives on life, sometimes it is really interesting how much can you learn from them, but some of them are just not really worth my time and energy and they are not beneficial for development of my or the collective consciousness.

[Forestluv]

@intrastellar I would associate open-mindedness with expansion of consciousness, not contraction. For example in SD, an open mind allows expansion and evolution up the spiral -rather than a contracted regression down the spiral.

It would be like telling someone learning advanced Calculus to be open-minded about beginning algebra. 

At the practical human level, we only have a certain amount of resources and some things are not worth our time and effort. For example, it would be unwise for someone living in a city to spend his time contemplating whether to buy a donkey to commute to work. I don’t consider it to be closed-minded to dismiss this idea as being absurd. It is better that such a person receive therapy rather than be taken seriously.

In SD Tier 1, the primary seeking energy is to satisfy the self. Transitioning into Tier 2 involves self transcendence and an energetic shift. There is a new energetic orientation that is not self oriented. Open-mindedness takes on new meaning in Tier 2. As well, there is a deeper understanding of relativism which guides consideration of various perspectives. 

To learn more, I think Leo described higher level open-mindedness very well in his SD yellow video and his 65 principles for a good life video. 

[billiesimon]

16 hours ago, Emerald said:

But he also has shown recently a lot of stage Red/Blue to him in that he's very big on the gender difference thing, and even implied that it may be good to stop women from voting. The reason why he said this was basically that society is worse now because men used do men stuff and women used do women stuff, and now that we all do the same things that's caused so many problems. And when the interviewer said to him something like, 'Certainly equality is good in the basic ways like voting, right?' And Elliot responded by saying something that dodged answering the question directly but implied that perhaps we should 'be open minded' and consider rescinding those rights from women.

 

True. I've seen that interview. 

To me Elliot right now is blue/orange. He has clearly regressed of half a stage, because in the past he was solid orange with no interest in traditionalism.

I believe he is very proud of these traditional beliefs, it's not a capitalist bluff.
His belief in tradition seems to have been triggered by his alpha-pride. Not a good business decision in these times of progressivism. A lot more wiser to invest in green ideology if I was a capitalist.

[intrastellar]

@Serotoninluv @bejapuskas There is a difference between not caring about something and having dismissing something - it's like the difference between 0 and -1000.

I wouldn't contempate bying a donkey to commute because I see there are better ways for me to get to work. But that doesn't mean I would dismiss the idea of using a donkey to get to work. I wouldnt form a strong opinion about donkeys and I wouldn't riddicule people who choose to use a donkey to get to work and call them undeveloped. I simply wouldn't use a donkey to get to work. And if some day someone tells me that he's always riding a donkey to get to work I wouldn't laugh at him but simply ask him why? And who knows... maybe he convinces me that riding a donkey to get to work is actually a great idea for me :). Or not. That is open mindedness for me.

But dismissing something without trying to understand it first, which means understanding why it is true for this person at this time and place, is closed minded, is a contraction in your consciousness and a reaction against it.

[RawJudah]

Why don't we all stop putting Elliot Hulse on a pedestal?

That might solve all these problems...

Use spiral dynamics on yourselves...

[Joseph Maynor]

When you lack love in your life it's hard to emit love to others.  It's hard to treat others better than you expect to be treated yourself.  And then you're always running around biting people being low in compassion and politeness.  This is a hard one to see and to fix because you have to understand it before you can fix it.  And it takes facing fear of rejection to fix it.  And social esteem doesn't cover the love need.  All you're gonna do is get trapped in narcissism without having that love need being met in your life.  This is why you need Maslow Stage 3 in order to do Maslow Stage 4 right.  And you need Maslow Stage 3 and 4 to get Maslow Stage 5.  To go for 4 and 5 without getting 3 wired is tragic.  Agreeableness comes from being loved intimately and giving love intimately.  This is why you need a girlfriend to get 3 handled and a few real friends that are not online friends in your life.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[bejapuskas]

@intrastellar You're right, attachment to things and opinions create suffering.

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

@intrastellar You're right, attachment to things and opinions create suffering.

You need to apply the Paradox of Ego And No Ego to be maximally happy.  Getting locked on one side of this paradox to the exclusion of the other side creates suffering for you and for everybody who is exposed to you.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Joseph Maynor