Leo, How does one Surrender to Death?

[Sempiternity]

**If you yourself haven’t actually surrendered to your own death, died and experienced God/Truth/Infinity, I request you not comment, as you’re in the same boat as me, all conceptional and non-experience based opinion.**
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Leo,

If everything in life is imaginary and I (God, whom I’ve yet to realize in actuality) am creating this eternal moment, then that should mean that everything I heard about death is false and just as illusionary as everything else. So if I am immortal and eternal, then my (the Identity Ego) death is as inconsequential as waking from a dream. But everything the Ego is about is survival, staying alive, so how do I commit to my death, when everything I am doesn’t want to die?

Is it a leap of faith? You have to have the will to die, commit suicide, commit fully to the end of your existence, standing strong in the faith that enlightenment is on the other side of that committed choice?

I was an Atheist all my life, up until I discovered Nonduality, so death being the end of existence is still deeply ingrained (all a story I created, I know), even if I now know that I cannot die, at least in theory via stories from other people.

The key is I need to experience myself as Nonduality, to finally ‘know’ Truth/God/Infinity/Omnipotence. But to do that I need to fully commit to my death. Otherwise I’ll just fight death with everything I’ve got to fight it off, to stay alive at all costs (including my Awakening and liberation). Which is what happened last time I did 5-MeO. Now I’m trying it again, and want to not fight it to stay alive, but to fully surrender to experience Truth.

But how can I if everything in my Identity is trying to stay alive? Catch 22 is it not? How does one commit and surrender to their death if everything they are does not want to die? How does one commit suicide (Ego death thru psychedelics like 5-MeO or DPT), if they desperately want to live?

I know you and others say it’s not real death, that you’ll come back after, but I don’t know that for 100% sure. I mean from everything I’ve studied over that past 2 years tell me I will come back, but I won’t know for sure until I experience it for myself. Even if I was 95% sure, that 5% would prevent me from committing to surrender of my life to death.

In Nonduality, everyone says the goal is to actually not come back. The goal IS my death. So again, how do I surrender to death, without just saying ‘you just do it”, how do I have the will to commit suicide (again, talking Identity Ego death, which is apparently the same thing as conceptual death)?

I’m 44 and have spent decades doing every drug I could get my hands on. I’ve done LSD and mushrooms hundreds of times, I’ve done hash, Ketamine, Nitrous, 5-MeO-DIPT, Ayahuasca. I’ve even done 5-Meo a few times, to little affect. About half of these experiences lead to me having a panic attack, thinking I’m dying and trying to fight to not die. But these drug experiences were all to enhance my reality. And 5-Meo is about ending it. So all those past drug experiences are not relevant to this equation.

Is surrendering to death on 5-MeO the same as surrendering to a drug? Letting the drug take you wherever it wants. Is this surrender the same as surrendering to death?

I know conceptually that all those past experiences never really happened, as my past experiences are imaginary (apparently), but I won’t know that for sure, until I Awaken. But those hundreds of instances of panic attacks and fighting to not die, are real to me, as I’m an Ego, thinks his past is real. So you see the catch-22 / vicious circle? How do I trust, when the request is my very death and the end of my life? I don’t know if I have that much trust in me, to gamble with my life. So what advice is there to be able to choose that trust, to take that leap of faith, to chose to chose to end my life?

How do I trust that if I kill myself, I’ll Awaken to Truth/Liberation/Enlightenment, and not just be ending my consciousness, potentially robbing myself of maybe another 40 years of a decent, it not flawed life?

Now I’ve learned that the only way to Awakening/ Truth is to be in that same space of feeling like I’m dying, panicking again, but this time I have to choose to die, instead of trying to save myself. But how can I do that, willfully commit, surrender to my death? How can I choose to die, when I can’t, cause my very survival and life is all that matters to me?

Could really use some advice on this.

 

 

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

Don't overthink it. It's certainly not done through logic. Logic is there to serve survival.

For me it just comes naturally as a means to my ultimate goal: Truth, Love, and understanding.

If you just desire Truth, and Love, and understanding enough, and work towards that, eventually ego-death will happen and it won't be a big deal.

Psychedelics help a lot with getting confortable with ego death. That is one of their most useful features. You can become so comfortable with it that you don't bat an eye when it happens.

Otherwise try years of Kriya yoga.

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Jed Vassallo said:

Is surrendering to death on 5-MeO the same as surrendering to a drug? Letting the drug take you wherever it wants. Is this surrender the same as surrendering to death?

Yes!

I think you are framing this whole issue in an unresourceful way. Rather than thinking of it as "My death is coming", forget about that and just focus on being really CURIOUS! Be so curious about what consciousness is that death becomes irrelevant.

Who cares about death when there is God to explore? Frame it in this positive way. When tripping, replace fear with curiosity.

[SunnyNewDay]

You man up and face the fear. The fear has no reference point. You just experience it because that's the only way forward. It's so simple that people try to use their minds to get them through it but you can't bring your mind along with you. Psychedelics it's possible very quickly if you let go. Be honest and let your heart guide you. Your heart will guide you even better in real life often times as well. Many people are too scared to just be honest, feel scared and dive into the ocean of fear. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by SunnyNewDay

[Sempiternity]

Thank you @Leo Gura and @SunnyNewDay for the advice. 

[Nahm]

@Jed Vassallo If you never heard of ego death, and experienced it, I don’t think that is what you would call it. The term is very fitting in the fervor of the difference in experience after, than it is indicative of the breakthrough part one appears to experience. Essentially, it’s not that big of a deal. You may have made a bit of a barrier out of it. 

[Sempiternity]

There suddenly being no more me, and being God creator of everything, seems like a big deal. 

I honestly wish I didn't know anything about all of this, and someone just came up to me with 5-MeO and said "here try this". And then got to learn about Nonduality after the fact. 

[Inliytened1]

@Jed Vassallo that's what happened to me except i was just doing self inquiry.  I didn't have any idea what i was getting into - i just had an open mind.

That said - you can still do the same.   Just have an open mind and when meditating - quiet the mind and just say "hey, let's see where this takes me".  Don't think about anything.  (Don't overthink).  It's thinking that screws us as the ego.   

Also one thing people miss is Love.  Love is powerful enough to awaken someone.  So when meditating and/or taking pyschedelics, let Love fill you up, but don't think.

Also do not fear surrendering.  When you get a full blast of the Absolute sometimes it is simply too much for a mere mortal.  Its an awesome force that is simply too much..it will pour into you but you won't let it because it's just too powerful..you will shake and scream uncontrollably.

Thats OK.  Because you will be in a state of consciousnes a thousand times higher than normal and that could last for days even weeks with realizations coming and going.

Other times you will just be there.  No force.  Just calm.  Non-dual state where death of the ego just happened without any need to surrender.  It was just instantaneous.

So either way there is nothing to fear.  You will not be able to stop it as the ego even if you wanted to.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Sempiternity]

Thank you! Great advice!

[cetus]

1 hour ago, Jed Vassallo said:

Is it a leap of faith? You have to have the will to die, commit suicide, commit fully to the end of your existence, standing strong in the faith that enlightenment is on the other side of that committed choice?

Bingo - you nailed it!

[njuufa]

What came to mind is the "illusion of the death" or "fear of the death" same thing. That would be like someone pretending their whole life that death is not gonna happen to them. But the fact is that we still have to burry you, drink, eat and talk about you. 

 

[Sempiternity]

34 minutes ago, njuufa said:

What came to mind is the "illusion of the death" or "fear of the death" same thing. That would be like someone pretending their whole life that death is not gonna happen to them. But the fact is that we still have to burry you, drink, eat and talk about you. 

 

Not necessarily. If Nonduality is true and all this is an illusion, and death is a story, then it's likely that once this particular version of existence has 'ended', then all of the illusion will end with it. As Leo has said, my family (as is everything and everyone) doesn't exist. They are all dream characters. Once I wake from this particular dream, they don't exist to morn. 

[Nahm]

3 hours ago, Jed Vassallo said:

There suddenly being no more me,

If there was no more you, you wouldn’t know it.  No worries. 

and being God creator of everything, seems like a big deal. 

If the fore mentioned me was truly no more, no one would be being God, so it would not be possible to experience the relative perspective “God is a big deal”. I don’t think you should worry about that either. (Unless you mean, as God, you would be thinking ‘I’m a big deal’.)

I honestly wish I didn't know anything about all of this,

That’s already the case, the trouble comes from thinking it isn’t. Gotta empty the cup. No worries. Empty those too. 

and someone just came up to me with 5-MeO and said "here try this". And then got to learn about Nonduality after the fact. 

You’ve been on enough trips to know the letting go of a thing brings it about. That’ll work out just like it does. No worries! 

 

 

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Jed Vassallo said:

Not necessarily. If Nonduality is true and all this is an illusion, and death is a story, then it's likely that once this particular version of existence

How do you know it’s true, that there are versions of existence? 

has 'ended', then all of the illusion will end with it.

The beginning and ending of an illusion....would be illusionary. The middle as well. No worries. 

As Leo has said, my family (as is everything and everyone) doesn't exist. They are all dream characters. Once I wake from this particular dream, they don't exist to morn. 

You’re mixing two perspectives into one. Either you know they don’t exist. Or you morn them. Don’t worry about that.   

 

“Choose love. Choose love. Without this beautiful love, life is nothing but a burden.”  Rumi

[nowimhere]

Definately meditate more. It will help to let go. As that's what you are doing when you meditate.

It might also help to increase your dose by 1 or 2 mgs. This will over-ride the ego so hard that you won't even have time to mentally resist. But I would only suggest that as a last resort, as you will need to learn "the art of letting go"

One thing that I have noticed the last number of trips, is fear building up.. Before I even take anything ! lol So How I've managed it is this; 

- Meditate on love prior to the trip

- repeat a mantra right before you smoke. I say "What ever happens will happen, show me what I need to see"

I just say that over and over and over until I feel close enough to baseline calm, then I smoke it. 

[Sempiternity]

17 hours ago, nowimhere said:

Definately meditate more. It will help to let go. As that's what you are doing when you meditate.

Thank! Highly agree. I've been doing daily meditation and it does help with this very issue of letting go. 

It might also help to increase your dose by 1 or 2 mgs. This will over-ride the ego so hard that you won't even have time to mentally resist. But I would only suggest that as a last resort, as you will need to learn "the art of letting go"

I have the Oxalate version, not smokable. Realize smoking has its perks, such as hitting you within seconds, so your Ego does not have a chance to fight. I'll be plugging, which comes on after 15-20 minutes, so lots of time to panic.

One thing that I have noticed the last number of trips, is fear building up.. Before I even take anything ! lol So How I've managed it is this; 

- Meditate on love prior to the trip

- repeat a mantra right before you smoke. I say "What ever happens will happen, show me what I need to see"

This is great advice! Thanks! I will def do this beforehand. 

I just say that over and over and over until I feel close enough to baseline calm, then I smoke it.