My Whatsapp politic group makes me crazy - How can't they be interested in Spiral dy?

[Nivsch]

And they are NOT right-wing.

They are centered people (part of them more left, part of the very soft-right wing) with the same values of the moderate left (a lot from green values).

I tell them "this will make you understand better EVERY political view you will hear from today and forever."

And i wrote every week a couple of sentences on every stage in a friendly language.

Today i suggested them the full summary I wrote, and said "that only will take you 20+ minutes to read" and until now only 2 people (out of 200+ members in this group) sent me a message that they want the summary.

How it can be?

You are supposed to to be very curious about it because its part of the activity you do! To know how to make other people believe in the party values.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Nivsch

[hamedsf]

people don't want to accept the fact that all perspectives are relative. right-wing, left-wing, republican, democrat and...

they are amused by playing the argument game and they don't want to wake up to the fact that there's a possibility of spiral dynamics and also they can even evolve to more upper levels.

if majority of people in the world would take a close interest in self-actualization, how would the world be like in that case? but how many people in the world actually know about self-actualization? the number of people who don't know about it are far more than the people who show a great interest in self-actualization. as a matter of fact, incomparable!

accept the very fact that very minority of people will take the right path and the majority would be stuck in their own perspectives/beliefs/perceptions.

accept that changing is difficult for the EGO, very few people are open to new things, it requires meta-cognition which is rare among common people!!

don't even force the process, I think even two guys are enough to start off! 

GOOD LUCK!

Edited July 2, 2019 by hamedsf

[Aakash]

people will not absorb information they don’t want to. Just because you know it is the solution to many problems, does not mean they will understand by looking at it from a quick glance. 

[Aakash]

@Shiva I would agree, I think for yellow the SD model does not destroy your world view but increases it. For tier 1 their whole world view will be destroyed and therefore it is counter productive to learn spiral dynamics 

[Nivsch]

7 hours ago, hamedsf said:

people don't want to accept the fact that all perspectives are relative. right-wing, left-wing, republican, democrat and...

they are amused by playing the argument game and they don't want to wake up to the fact that there's a possibility of spiral dynamics and also they can even evolve to more upper levels.

if majority of people in the world would take a close interest in self-actualization, how would the world be like in that case? but how many people in the world actually know about self-actualization? the number of people who don't know about it are far more than the people who show a great interest in self-actualization. as a matter of fact, incomparable!

accept the very fact that very minority of people will take the right path and the majority would be stuck in their own perspectives/beliefs/perceptions.

accept that changing is difficult for the EGO, very few people are open to new things, it requires meta-cognition which is rare among common people!!

don't even force the process, I think even two guys are enough to start off! 

GOOD LUCK!

Really like your answer very cheering me up. The main thing brought me to actualized.org is my OCD and anxiety disorder i have, and i started with Leo's videos of meditation techniques and later to the more 'hard core' videos and also then - in order to make my mental health better (the main reason) and it really helps me. Obviousely also my political interest plays a role here.

Maybe because of my mental issue and the way i went in with the meditations for 2.5 years (so far) - it made me a little more developed than most of the activists in my political Party?

Note that the reason i want to teach them SD, is in order to give them the ability to make Israel society move up the spiral much more efficiently (because its possible only through yellow strategy because green strategy will only make the society polarized) and be more advanced country.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Nivsch

[kag101]

Omg, don't be a spiral dynamics preacher.

Let people be what they are, and stop forcing people to be interested in what you are. 

If you get so irritated by this group, just quit it... 

[Nivsch]

4 minutes ago, kag101 said:

Omg, don't be a spiral dynamics preacher.

Let people be what they are, and stop forcing people to be interested in what you are. 

If you get so irritated by this group, just quit it... 

I'm not forcing them at all. I try to do it smoothly and friendly. I think its legitimate to want my country to progress a little faster (and not like a turtle). 

[Nivsch]

@Aakash @Shiva interesting. maybe they will be more open to the model during the time (especially if we loose the election ?)?

 thanks ?

[d0ornokey]

People are so caught up in their beliefs and thinking they're right that they dont notice that there are different perspectives 

Shiva is right, you need to be aware that there are value in other perspectives 

When I was hard orange, I didnt acknowledge any other perspective. I thought:

"Science is the one true perspective"

"Religion and spirituality are nonsense"

"There cannot be anything besides that which science has proven. Because science is the epitome of mankind."

"Physical reality is the only thing that exists. You're deluded otherwise" 

They (and I in the past) are operating off of preset conditions, which leo explains in: 

Their preset perspective doesnt allow room for different perspectives. It's a "rule" in their mind of how the world works. Like a computer program that set to reject certain things based off certain criteria

Dogma is contagious. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by d0ornokey

[Shadowraix]

Try using spiral dynamics to understand their perspective and where they are at. 

[kag101]

7 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

Try using spiral dynamics to understand their perspective and where they are at. 

Thumbs up

[Nivsch]

On 3.7.2019 at 3:33 AM, Shadowraix said:

Try using spiral dynamics to understand their perspective and where they are at. 

But what is the point if i'm not influencing them, even slightly? 

[ajasatya]

On 02/07/2019 at 10:38 AM, Nivsch said:

My Whatsapp politic group makes me crazy - How can't they be interested in Spiral dy?

You can simply leave that group.

Also, how can't you be interested in <insert random subject>?! You should be interested in <insert random subject>!

[CreamCat]

Associate with people who are interested in Spiral Dynamics.

[Nivsch]

8 hours ago, ajasatya said:

You can simply leave that group.

Also, how can't you be interested in <insert random subject>?! You should be interested in <insert random subject>!

But its not random because this model is about cultural values development and that is exactly what they want to do as a political activists - to make more people (from the right-wing) convinced in their values and vote for their (more liberal) party. In other words to move up stages.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Nivsch

[ajasatya]

13 hours ago, Nivsch said:

But its not random because this model is about cultural values development and that is exactly what they want to do as a political activists - to make more people (from the right-wing) convinced in their values and vote for their (more liberal) party. In other words to move up stages.

Should also create an account on a random MMORPG and play 24/7 to move up stages. 

See, you should not try to tell people what they should be interested in. Thirst for personal development is something that comes from within or from "accidental" events in Life. You can't just tell someone that likes football that football is bad. For the same reason, you can't just tell someone that doesn't like football that football is good.

Well, technically you can tell them. It just won't work.

[Nivsch]

32 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

Should also create an account on a random MMORPG and play 24/7 to move up stages. 

See, you should not try to tell people what they should be interested in. Thirst for personal development is something that comes from within or from "accidental" events in Life. You can't just tell someone that likes football that football is bad. For the same reason, you can't just tell someone that doesn't like football that football is good.

Well, technically you can tell them. It just won't work.

If they are political activists (center-left wing sector) and they want to take right-wing voters and move them more towards the center (they DO want because they are busy all the time on trying to convince right-wing voters to vote differently - vote us) = to move up them a bit in the spiral. so here is a model to help you to that! Thats why they supposed to be interested in the model because it may help them convince right wing voters to vote our centered party.  Why it doesn't make sense?

If we make people move up a little bit in the spiral = they will be more moderate and centered people = we will have more votes.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Nivsch

[ajasatya]

27 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Why it doesn't make sense?

Because the goal of the spiral dynamics model is to make people interested in integrating yellow and beyond. Keep in mind that the spiral dynamics framework itself is from the yellow stage. People from green and below will just adhere to their same sets of ideologies because they feel threatened by models that place them as "not the truth keepers".

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, ajasatya said:

Because the goal of the spiral dynamics model is to make people interested in integrating yellow and beyond. Keep in mind that the spiral dynamics framework itself is from the yellow stage. People from green and below will just adhere to their same sets of ideologies because they feel threatened by models that place them as "not the truth keepers".

Oh OK. I understand. Its weird because i feel like I am not different from them. I have the same liberal and equality values as them, I feel the same passion about those values like them, and I think that our values are MUCH better than those of anti-democratic and Orthodox people. But still i do attract enormously to Spiral dynamics and they don't (or much less than I). Thats why its seems weird to me. Maybe there is something i missing out here.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Nivsch

[Shadowraix]

On 7/4/2019 at 8:04 PM, Nivsch said:

But what is the point if i'm not influencing them, even slightly? 

The tool is meant for YOU to implement it in your life to grow and understand. Focus less on spreading it and more on using it to grow your consciousness.