The vast majority of people greatly overestimate themselves and others.

[CreamCat]

I used to think I was at Orange. Wrong. I was at Beige.

Most people who think they are at Blue, Orange, and Green are actually at lower stages.

Toxic Green is actually people who are probably at Purple or Red. Yet, their Purple or Red is mediocre. Muslim terrorists are incredibly weak at Blue. Jordan Peterson's Blue is minimally satisfactory because he doesn't feel connected to God and his level of mastery and discipline is not that great. Most Green examples we see are not highly developed Green, but mediocrely or poorly developed ones like dirty little jobless hippies. It's no wonder that we see a lot of criticisms toward Beige, Purple, Red, Blue, Orange, and Green. We don't see many inspiring examples of any except a few world-class citizens like olympians.

We are overestimating ourselves and other people.

Humanity has a lot of holes from Beige to Green. They need to develop from scratch again.

The only kind of people I trust are properly developed from Beige to Blue are olympians and professional sports players. They nailed down Beige. Most of them are pretty good with Purple, Red, and Blue.

If you combine professional sports players with Elon Musk, you get someone who nailed down Beige, Purple, Red, Blue, and Orange. Maybe, Elon Musk is pretty good with Beige, Purple, Red, Blue, and Orange.

We have not seen many who's properly developed from Beige to Green. I think keeanu reeves is well developed at Beige, Purple, Blue, Orange, and Green although his Red may not be as good.

Edited July 2, 2019 by CreamCat

[Apparition of Jack]

My understanding is that saying someone is in stage Blue or Green or whatever else doesn't mean they're always acting in a Blue/Green/whatever way, just that, given all else is stable, they will predominately display behaviours and thoughts associated with that stage. 

A blue person sitting under a tree during a nice picnic will be having blue thoughts. A green person sitting under a tree during a nice picnic will be having green thoughts. 

This also means that people can devolve in behaviour if situations change. A predominately-green human rights activist might suddenly become a stage beige or even red devil if they find themselves on a sinking ship with not enough life boats. A stage blue patriarchal father might display a rare green-like tolerance to his daughter telling him she's dating a guy from a different civilisation, if he's in a good mood and feeling particularly secure about his life situation. 

People are multifaceted and have many many dimensions to their psyche. The goal isn't to try and "finish the blue level so you can collect your power-up and move onto orange", it's to gradually integrate the many parts of yourself so that you, by nature, start to exhibit higher-stage ideas and behaviours. 

 

[Aakash]

@CreamCat it’s greatly confusing but the dynamics of SD changes when analysing different things. When your socially at a specific level, you might not be at an individualistic level. For example, if you are eating food and sleeping everyday then you have completed the basic requirements for beige. It’s a more complicated structure and rich with strange loops. 

Hence you can never peg someone at any level and it should only be used as reference points for understanding that section. 

[CreamCat]

31 minutes ago, Aakash said:

For example, if you are eating food and sleeping everyday then you have completed the basic requirements for beige.

Fulfilling basic requirements is far from being satisfactory.

You can satisfy Beige at world-class level like olympians. You can be a weakling who manages to survive by eating junk food and sleeping on irregular schedule.

2 hours ago, Apparation of Jack said:

they will predominately display behaviours and thoughts associated with that stage.

If your Green is weakly developed, gravitating toward Green doesn't mean much because your Green thoughts would actually not be Green. You could easily confuse psychopathy with Green if you are weakly developed across the board. This explains how many psychopaths infiltrated environmental activist groups and various other supposedly Green groups.

I see a lot of pseudo-Blue, pseudo-Orange, and pseudo-Green.

Edited July 2, 2019 by CreamCat

[Aakash]

13 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Fulfilling basic requirements is far from being satisfactory.

You can satisfy Beige at world-class level like olympians. You can be a weakling who manages to survive by eating junk food and sleeping on irregular schedule.

Yes and what is the standards you’ve defined as you see one as ore important than the other ? 

Also let me clarify what I’m saying here about strange loop. It’s that if you take a different perspective, your base level will automatically fall, via your own analysis. So everyone is constantly rising and dropping back down to beige. It’s a strange one. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Aakash

[Freakyboo]

I'm just wondering why you're so hung up on where other people are, and you seem triggered by what you call 'poorly developed green?'   Focus on yourself and become aware that what you are judging and noticing in others is really yourself.

[Shadowraix]

People aren't just exclusively at one stage or the other. They can express a mix of a variety of stages. Pinning yourself as only one color is the flaw here. 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat

Why does JP lack mastery when he has a Ph.D ? What counts as mastery ? I mean an olympian mastered, for instance javlin tossing, and is a very nice person. Yet, it's very rare imo to feel inspired by a single olympian instead of olympia itself (besides you are a fan) and the "festival" and attraction that it pulls, wanting to see people perform and beat records, representing countries, being an political event. I know Usian Bolt that's it. I feel more that this is a political opportunity, I imagine how it must have been in rome or greece not sure if rome also had olympia.

And I like olympia and the variety of sports a lot... I just don't watch it often. 

I mean I could critcize JP that he does not do enough research or publishes enough paper if his field of mastery is academics etc. Yet, I often feel that he is more on a mission not sure what kind but, he definitely spreads his agenda and I am still not really on terms with him receiving money from right-wingers or apparently extrem right-wing on patreon. He deleted it, but where does he pour the money into ? Publishing books ? Nothing against his books I like 10 rules for life I feel things like this are missing, yet the more crucial point is a healthy family, in a healthy enviroment with appropriate opportunities for growth and chances for others to join the commune. 

I've once read an dysotopian book where everything was perfect, basically all levels of spiral dynamics especially health (let's say reaching green or Green/yellow with so many system changes / thinking about health), so including beige, hormornal checks etc. They contaminated or put certain areas under quarantine, banned cigarettes and alcohol. Etc. I can't remember the end of the book, it is called corpus delicti, meaning the body or tool / vessel which did the murdering, in simplistic terms. It definitely did not end well, it's clear that people are deficient, yet I don't think everyone can be an ace or a superstar. The point is optimization, and I can't become an olympian as Stephen Hawking.. but, he certainly contributed and mastered the fields relevant to physics or theoretical physics. So, that is my point. I am also trying to grow therefore not sure if this post was useful, because, it would rather be interesting to hear your perspective on how to grow through each stage and action steps taken, for instance joined the xyz community and helping with refugees from xyz, etc. So, having a list of activities that involve each stage. That would be very cool also.

I like the video you posted a lot and subbed the channel.

I also think many people who do sports are definitely more humble and have very good purple tribe mentallity and respect towards each other in the team with defined roles etc, that they can act out healthly in blue. But you can't be at beige basically by definition of the spiral dynamics book, since you are not reduced to your biological functions. Stage beige is a new born, or someone who has a serious ilness and was no "consciouness" therefore or free will or some other name. You can look at it from a biological perspective and the SAAFE review, yet most people here did not take the test, rendering the post a bit useless. I get what is meant most likely from the test, yet it does not really seem that many read the book. Being beige according to the book is horrible...
 

 

[CreamCat]

16 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

Why does JP lack mastery when he has a Ph.D ? What counts as mastery ?

JP doesn't lack mastery, but his mastery is certainly not at olympian level. Having a PhD is not a sign of great mastery. Stephen Hawking's mastery was pretty good although I don't know whether his was at olympian level.

16 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

I am still not really on terms with him receiving money from right-wingers or apparently extrem right-wing on patreon.

He cannot know whether a donor is on right wing or extreme right wing. He happened to appeal to right wing. My impression is that left wing and extreme left wing are not meaningfully better.

16 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

it would rather be interesting to hear your perspective on how to grow through each stage and action steps taken

There are ways to grow in each stage. And, you can figure out how to stick to regular sleep schedule, eat healthy food, and so on.

Daily operations boil down to discipline and mindfulness. I cannot say much because I haven't grown much yet. Ask someone else who's better.

SAAFE report teaches you of several growth strategies.

• Conservative strategy // You grow one area at once
• Progressive strategy // You grow in multiple areas at once
• Deathproof strategy // You try to reach deathproof level in every area simultaneously.

16 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

But you can't be at beige basically by definition of the spiral dynamics book, since you are not reduced to your biological functions.

I graduated from Beige a long time ago. Yet, I need to start again from Beige because my scores are low across the board. So, I'm as good as Beige. If my scores are low across the board, how can I say I'm at Orange or Green with confidence? I can't.

Edited July 4, 2019 by CreamCat

[Commodent]

If you were predominantly Beige you would not be sitting on the Internet. You would be out on the streets scraping for food. Basic survival needs would be your main concern, not self-actualization. I know you follow TJ Reeves, so I can say that just because you're not "deathproof" at Beige does not mean it's your predominant value meme.

[Aakash]

@Commodent again, you are not taking into consideration. You are looking at it from a historical point of view, while cream cat is looking at it from a individual point of view, with strict parameters of stabilising across the board in all ways BEFORE moving up to the next stage. 

Ofcourse cream cat, it is only when you are aware of spiral dynamics itself, you can adjust properly. 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat He still accepts the money he could have closed it. The point for me is what does he do with it? Or what did he do. Also, everyone knew so he could not have had missed that. I do think an PH. D is an achievment depending on what your LP is and how much value is being added. 

If he supported a cause that helps a lot of people without any sort of discrimination that is fine. Even accepting it for himself, yet I don't know what he did with it. Potentially fund his campaign? 

I never really saw JP as a right winger, I liked his realness and that he expresses himself with a feeling of freedom etc. The bill c16 and this stuff, it's fine to speak out against it. I am not well-versed in creating legislations, yet I am not sure why he is so afraid of hippies. For instance in the PragerU Video of him. 

Sounds like you are way to tough on your self you can certainly increase "green" with self-compassionate pratices and believes. The though mindset is nice, but not sure what values it gives. I workout, yet I am not a top level athlete. 

I was curious if you did anything specific that allowed you to grow in certain areas. 

 

[Commodent]

@Aakash I don't understand what you're trying to say. Care to elaborate?

[CreamCat]

15 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

I was curious if you did anything specific that allowed you to grow in certain areas.

For now, I review SAAFE report everyday and think about what to improve.