Posted July 1, 2019 Just now, Nahm said: @Jack River Hi! Thanks. What’s up, Nahm...Hope all is well? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 1, 2019 @Jack Riverrises with the falling sun??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 1, 2019 1 hour ago, winterknight said: I've generally avoided commenting on this topic, and perhaps it's unwise of me to wade in, but fools go where angels fear to tread , and perhaps something productive will come of it. It's a mark of my respect for this forum as a gathering place for sincere seekers of truth that I am bothering to discuss this. We all know how unproductive such discussions can get. Anyhow, I respect psychedelics, and have taken them a few times, though I'm no expert. I certainly believe they can be helpful -- for the right person -- in opening the mind up in certain ways. However, from where I stand, the problem with believing that psychedelics can take you to Truth is that it misunderstands what Truth is. Truth is not a place to which one can be taken. It is not a state of consciousness, no matter how amazing, mind-blowing, or infinite. It is not a samadhi, no matter how extraordinary. Nor can any samadhi, no matter how profound, result in the realization of Truth. These -- at best -- can be glimpses or intimations or partial awakenings, but never Truth itself. Not even with integration and embodiment. Actually, Truth cannot be integrated and embodied. To realize Truth is to understand why that's so. The realization of Truth -- and there is only one such thing, and in fact not even that -- is fundamentally the destruction of certain incoherent unconscious beliefs which are at the root of suffering. These beliefs are based in thinking, that is, in words. These beliefs can only be unraveled through a clear introspective investigation of them. That investigation happens through intellectual discernment, not through any particular experience. Words destroy words, logic destroys logic, thinking destroys thinking. No quantity or type of experience can do it, because what is investigated is something common to all experiences. It's a belief that has to be unraveled through examination of experience itself. So it can have nothing to do with any particular experience, however cosmic, nor can it be the result of such a thing. If it did, it would then become provisional -- temporary -- limited -- and that would defeat the point of Truth. Truth is effortless perfect peace eternally. If that isn't the case, it can't be called Truth. Nice story bro, but Truth is everything and the only thing. Psychedelics can certainly take one there. Of course here and there are nowhere and one and the same. Truth is both temprary and eternal. It is all and nothing. There is nothing but states of consciousness and you are in a state right now, regardless of what it is. All states are part of the Truth. Whether it is formed or formless is irrelvant. These nonduality debates are getting really silly. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 55 minutes ago, Peo said: Are you talking about the eternal now or in other words the pressent moment? Beyond that duality 51 minutes ago, Nahm said: @winterknight DId you awaken, and then try psychedelics, or did you try them prior to awakening? I know it’s a dualistic hindsight inquiry, but I hope you can be bothered to answer. ? ? I've done them both before and after. Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 35 minutes ago, winterknight said: Beyond that duality I've done them both before and after. How much value did they have when you took them after? My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, mandyjw said: How much value did they have when you took them after? I mean, they were a very cool cosmic ride. Tons of amazing images and cool ideas. But 'after' nothing has much particular value per se except shallowly. Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 I'm kind of dumbfounded that this is even being contested. Nothing ever rang so true for me. It was a reminder. @winterknight I knew you were full of shit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 Enlightenment is just an ego game. The only thing that matters is developing more consciousness. ... @Juan Cruz Giusto Truth is bs, and chasing it is pointless. @winterknight I recall that you said in your enlightenment video that with self-inquiry you experience oneness and then you become enlightened. What happened? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Truth Addict said: @winterknight I recall that you said in your enlightenment video that with self-inquiry you experience oneness and then you become enlightened. What happened? What happened with what? Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, winterknight said: I mean, they were a very cool cosmic ride. Tons of amazing images and cool ideas. But 'after' nothing has much particular value per se except shallowly. Very different than my experience. Sounds like psychedelics arent a part of your path. They are very much a part of my path and have gotten a ton of benefit, as many others have. I would caution you against the assumption that everyone's path should look identical. That is just an assumption. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 @Leo Gura and @winterknight 's perspectives are both correct. No one is full of shit, or we all are. Natural awakening or psychedelic induced if you're talking about it as something that happened in the past, it's an experience, a thought and a memory. I am you, you are I. We created psychedelics to awaken, just like we created each other and a lot of other things whether the illusory I took them or not makes absolutely no difference. My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 1 minute ago, mandyjw said: No one is full of shit, or we all are. And simultaneously everything IS ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, winterknight said: What happened with what? 2 hours ago, winterknight said: That investigation happens through intellectual discernment, not through any particular experience. Words destroy words, logic destroys logic, thinking destroys thinking. No quantity or type of experience can do it, because what is investigated is something common to all experiences. It's a belief that has to be unraveled through examination of experience itself. So it can have nothing to do with any particular experience, however cosmic, nor can it be the result of such a thing. If it did, it would then become provisional -- temporary -- limited -- and that would defeat the point of Truth. I value experience and consider it a higher degree than intellect. Meaning that experience can deconstruct intellect. I could be wrong though. Edited July 2, 2019 by Truth Addict Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Truth Addict said: I value experience and consider it a higher degree than intellect. Meaning that experience can deconstruct intellect. I could be wrong though. Big time. ? (jokes brother) the intellect is that which makes up the experience Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, Truth Addict said: I value experience and consider it a higher degree than intellect. Meaning that experience can deconstruct intellect. I could be wrong though. No, you are correct. When someone's "truth" contradicts your direct experience, they obviously dont know what they are talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Truth Addict said: I value experience and consider it a higher degree than intellect. Meaning that experience can deconstruct intellect. I could be wrong though. No, experience doesn't deconstruct intellect -- intellect deconstructs itself. The looking into, the discernment of this concept called "I," is what shows its true nature. Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) @winterknight your view on the “i” being the cause of the deconstruction of intellect is only partially true. The reason why you should rethink your arguments is because you learnt from people in the past. Intellect deconstructs intellect because any knowledge is founded upon distinctions which are itself untrue. That includes non duality and spirituality. Therefore by being a practitioner of such subjects. You- yourself are not conscious of the problem of stating you are fully enlightened using the subject non duality or advita vendate. Experience on the other hand is deconstructed via knowledge and overwritten using new experiences. The reason psychedelics never worked for you was because your very mind is grounded in advita vendate. Meaning you are not open minded to the experience of it proving your own experiences to be incorrect. Rather you used them to reinforce your reality (advita vendate) as correct and as such that is what brings you to write the statement word above for word. You praised Ramana Maharishi teachings to deeply and this limited your expedition to the true self, hence you are trapped inside a false self, unable to know where to question your own assumptions. Because it’s simple really, why would ramana maharashi question his own teachings ? And therefore nobody else has questioned it and as a result. Your left with people stating they are enlightened and know what they’re talking about from his teachings. Edit: you are correct ofcourse, just only partially like the rest of us. Edited July 2, 2019 by Aakash Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 2, 2019 @winterknight Maybe we could say that experience puts intellect into question and doubt, and then intellect deconstructs itself? Why saying it's only one way and not the other? Could it be both? Maybe experience is indirect because it leads to intellect, and intellect is direct because it's what does the actual work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
