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Petals

a clarification of 'imagination'?

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I have a question concerning the concept of 'imagination' that Leo uses.

Basically the question is: at what level does the imagination happen?

Let's say that this experience right now of me sitting in this room is an undivided oneness, but then the mind comes in and I imagine that there are objects and  a me that perceives these objects. Is this what is meant by 'imagination' as Leo uses it? or does it go deeper? that is, when I look at this room, at one point I recognize that I do not know what anything in this room really is (and maybe even oneness if I was advanced). I go beyond the concepts that the mind has. But still, something is there although I don't know what it is. Is this something also 'imagined'?

In summary, the question would go something like this: Is 'imagination' (as Leo uses it) something that God/Universal Mind does or is it something that the human mind (through thoughts and concepts) does?

I hope this makes any sense. and thank you for your replies.

Edited by Petals

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@Petals

If you think imagination, that's a problem.

If you stop thinking, that's another problem.

If you train the mind/body to stay Absolutely Still, Consciously Breathing, and Focused on Actuality, that's a Solution.

You must make your lizard mind absolutely Calm and Relaxed, no matter the Life situation.

You can only make that a Reality through following Spiritual Practices, without Belief Systems.

Edited by Anton_Pierre

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@Petals its happening at both levels you just are not aware of it in your current state of consciousness.  At higher levels of consciousness you realize that you ARE consciousness itself or God - imagining you are a human.

 You as God are also imagining that what is being imagined is real precisely so you as the human can reside in its current level of consciousness and not be aware that the physical world and everything else is imagination.  

 

Edited by Inliytened1

 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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@Anton_Pierre thank you, you are right. I'm just asking so that I can keep up with Leo's train of thought when he uses the word 'imagination' or 'eth is imagined'. 

@Inliytened1 thanks. 

what I mean is that to imagine that you are a human you maybe first need a 'medium' in which you can imagine it, just as you first need a block of stone to make a sculpture. the medium being this inexplicable moment right now full of seeing,hearing, etc.. so is this medium (seeing, hearing, etc.) already imagined or is 'being a human seeing/hearing objects' the first instance of 'imagination' (as Leo uses it)?

 

Edited by Petals

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You are consciousness itself.

You are the substrate of everything.  You are formless and infinite.  You experience yourself through form which is imagination.  You can imagine up anything you want.  Right now you are imaging you are a human. 

So the root level is Infinite, groundless consciousness.  


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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The answer to your question about a concept, is another concept. 

There is no such thing as a human mind. That is another concept.

@Anton_Pierre ‘s advice is as good as it gets. 

It is magic, and yes it is central to you. You are the magic. The only thing you can not do, is not be you. You can imagine like a mofo though. And now you have one more concept. 

@How to be wise Has (it seems) freshly ‘cracked the riddle’. In terms of advice on what to do (not what to conceptualize) he’s likely your best bet today. 


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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@Nahm correct.  This is all more concept and imagination.  In the end it all must collapse into the Absolute.

@Petals Words and concept may only confuse you more right now being new on the path.  Better to meditate and lose all concept by becoming the Absolute and then you will get it (by not getting it!)


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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@Nahm @Inliytened1 thank you. you are right. and when in doubt (assuming non-duality) there can only be one 'thing' imagining anything. but that's also just more concept. 

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@Petals Take your hand and hold it up to your face. Look at it. Your hand is imaginary.

Ditto for every other physical object, including the room and all the stuff in it.

This goes way deeper than you can presently believe.

If you stopped imagining entirely, the whole world would disappear. But of course this is not within your ego's power to do.

Just because something is imagination does not mean your ego has the power to control it according to its whims. This is where people get tripped up. They imagine that if something is imaginary their ego can manipulate at will, and when they fail to do so they conclude, "Well, then it must not be imaginary." That is the key mistake.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you stopped imagining entirely, the whole world would disappear. But of course this is not within your ego's power to do.

@Leo Gura yes Leo! This is it! This is what I was trying to get at in my question on another thread. 

This possibility, it is what needs to happen. This is why we can’t tell what Buddha meant by total. 

A) from your current understanding and experiences, is this possible without the use of psychedelics? 

B) will this phenomena occur permanently from a position of a total non dual state or a completely integrated dualistic state (I.e the fictional character)  

Disclaimer: I get we are only speculating and hypothesising at this point in time (the eternal free fall) 

Edited by Aakash

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@Leo Gura Thanks Leo. I think I fell into the trap of trying to understand the process/mechanism because that's what verbs describe (although you repeatedly said that there is no mechanism). but the adjective 'imaginary' makes it somehow clearer since its definition (oxford dict.) is simply 'existing only in mind'.

Edited by Petals

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@Petals reality is a giant Mind.  It is itself - thus it has no ground.  

It's OK to dwell in duality or concept and imagination.  Thats good - and it will bring you along.  But ultimately you will reach a point in the hero's journey where you must go off on your own.  That is where language and words can no longer carry you.  And none of us can help you - because the ultimate discovery is that we are all in your imagination.

For you to discover this you must Awaken to yourself.


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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