Why Some Seekers Reject Psychedelics

[Matt8800]

I have noticed that most people that try to claim that psychedelics have no value in spiritual evolution have very little experience with psychedelics.

Why would people reject something that they have no experience with? I believe its because they have chosen to not use psychedelics out of fear of losing control or conformity to societal rules. (more ego)

They dont want to believe that other people have an advantage in spiritual evolution that they dont have. Its an unsubstantiated assumption that they protect for egoic reasons.

If you dont want to do psychedelics, then dont do them but I would suggest searching yourself as to why you feel so strongly about OTHER people doing them. Why the internal aversion when others say they have found great spiritual value in psychedelics? The ego can be tricky

PS Anyone that says that psychedelic experiences arent "real" have overlooked that there is no such thing as a "fake" direct experience. All direct experience is real. It is the only thing that is real.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Matt8800

[SoonHei]

@Matt8800 it isn't a must.

some may "reject" it in that they do not even know about it... in some countries, using psychedelics to trip / grow spirituality is not even a thing.

also for most, they do not know about this property of them.

for those who know and do not try... who knows, there could be many reasons...

 

why is yoga not done by all

why is mindfulness labeling done by all

why is even sitting down to meditate done by all

 

the why isn't exclusive only to psychedelics. 

[Matt8800]

3 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

@Matt8800 it isn't a must.

some may "reject" it in that they do not even know about it... in some countries, using psychedelics to trip / grow spirituality is not even a thing.

also for most, they do not know about this property of them.

for those who know and do not try... who knows, there could be many reasons...

 

why is yoga not done by all

why is mindfulness labeling done by all

why is even sitting down to meditate done by all

 

the why isn't exclusive only to psychedelics. 

@SoonHei Yes, I agree that not everyone has knowledge or access to psychedelics. I am referring specifically to people that have been exposed to people that have had experience but so adamantly reject it out of personal bias. They cant just say that they personally choose not to do them; they feel a need to assert that OTHERS do not get any value either.

Its all ego based.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Matt8800

[SoonHei]

@Matt8800 well... everything is ego based

our very discussion about it is ego based

 

and yes, it's because to them, it absolutely holds true... that they are not beneficial. that's the whole dilemma - they are certainly rejecting something from not having tried it themselves... or they could have tried it and had a bad trip thereby warning others not to do it.

 

possibilities are endless and this debates gets you and I nowhere

i like to call such debates a game of tennis... we are just playing with this debate/idea.

end of day, we will stop and be exactly where we are.

 

for yourself, ask why knowing/discussing this is important for YOU? it's knowledge based info... does nothing to move your spiritual position so to speak... the answer at the end may be correct...

but what does it add?

 

it's like you wanting to know the population of a country... okay... you have the answer. now what? 

#EgoBased

 

[Matt8800]

5 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

 

 

for yourself, ask why knowing/discussing this is important for YOU? it's knowledge based info... does nothing to move your spiritual position so to speak... the answer at the end may be correct...

but what does it add?

 

 

I could ask the same question as to why you replied

The point I am making is maybe it would be a good idea to search oneself if they hold on to strong biases, with no experience, about other people's decisions. If you think I have a strong bias without substantiation, I'd love to hear what that is  

Lets seek truth regardless of how the ego reacts.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Matt8800

[SoonHei]

@Matt8800 me replying is simply playing your initial tennis serve back with hopes you miss it (understand what I'm saying)  and do not play the shot back

 

looks like i might have missed but here's another

*SMASSHHH * +  *AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHUHHHHGHHHH* (Nadal's Grunting in Tennis  )

 

[mandyjw]

This is something that I'm trying to figure out myself so I hope my perspective makes sense here. I had a recent awakening and I have never taken any drugs. A big part of my practice right now is letting go of the mystical experiences I had and not missing them or holding them as an ideal. It doesn't matter how you get to have mystical experiences, spontaneously, through psychedelics, or whatever method, those experiences are all meant to be let go of. 

It's not right to look at other people's paths and pick them apart or project where we are and what we are dealing with onto someone else. But at the same time that's how we going about understanding the world and other people. When I see other people continuously using pyschedelics rather than using them and letting go of them, I feel afraid and concerned for myself that I won't be successful in letting the memory/desire for my own mystical experiences go. 

It feels like being stuck in the in between. I just want to see us all either transcend it or settle into it, whichever is meant to be.

Edited June 27, 2019 by mandyjw

[Matt8800]

3 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

@Matt8800 me replying is simply playing your initial tennis serve back with hopes you miss it (understand what I'm saying)  and do not play the shot back

 

looks like i might have missed but here's another

*SMASSHHH * +  *AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHUHHHHGHHHH* (Nadal's Grunting in Tennis  )

 

Sorry, still not sure what your point is. If you dont want to talk about it, then dont talk about it.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Matt8800

[SoonHei]

xoxoxxoo@Matt8800

[Matt8800]

5 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

This is something that I'm trying to figure out myself so I hope my perspective makes sense here. I had a recent awakening and I have never taken any drugs. A big part of my practice right now is letting go of the mystical experiences I had and not missing them or holding them as an ideal. It doesn't matter how you get to have mystical experiences, spontaneously, through psychedelics, or whatever method, those experiences are all meant to be let go of. 

It's not right to look at other people's paths and pick them apart of project where we are and what we are dealing with onto someone else. But at the same time that's how we going about understanding the world and other people. When I see other people continuously using pyschedelics rather than using them and letting go of them, I feel afraid and concerned for myself that I won't be successful in letting the memory/desire for my own mystical experiences go. 

It feels like being stuck in the in between. I just want to see us all either transcend it or settle into it, whichever is meant to be.

@mandyjw There is no issue with people that choose to not do psychedelics.

If you are averse to OTHER people making a choice to use a tool that you dont know anything about, isnt it a good idea to just admit that maybe people that do have experience are more qualified to have an opinion?

There is nothing wrong with admitting that we dont know something.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Matt8800

[Key Elements]

I'm not arguing against psychedelics, and I'm not arguing against Leo, but everything has pros and cons.

If you look at the 10 Ox Herding Pics and had an enlightenment experience, you will understand that Riding the Ox Backwards is enlightenment. You become God and transform back into your ego, and at the same time, create the world/universe. I said this before. The question is, how many times are you going to take psychedelics to get this experience? Forever? In that case, you're stuck. As you can see, Riding the Ox Backwards isn't the end of the story. It's the Cloth Bag Monk. What does this mean? You have to live life. Life itself is a setup of: Challenges are opportunities. Do you see any challenges presented to you as opportunities? If you don't do this, enlightenment may never come to you--doesn't matter psychedelics or not.

[John Iverson]

Dogmas, lack of open mindedness.. and also interests, or they are not fearless enough to try it.. depends also what level their psychological consciousness is.. if they are im blue stage... uh ohhh!! Don't ever bring up or else you will go to jail hahahah 

Edited June 27, 2019 by John Iverson

[Matt8800]

4 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

I'm not arguing against psychedelics, and I'm not arguing against Leo, but everything has pros and cons.

If you look at the 10 Ox Herding Pics and had an enlightenment experience, you will understand that Riding the Ox Backwards is enlightenment. You become God and transform back into your ego, and at the same time create, the world/universe. I said this before. The question is, how many times are you going to take psychedelics to get this experience? Forever? In that case, you're stuck. As you can see, Riding the Ox Backwards isn't the end of the story. It's the Cloth Bag Monk. What does this mean? You have to live life. Life itself is a setup of: Challenges are opportunities. Do you see any challenges presented to you as opportunities? If you don't do this enlightenment may never come to you--doesn't matter psychedelics or not.

This is based on the assumption that people that use psychedelics are simply chasing an experience.

This may be true for some but not others. I am referring to people that use psychedelics and continue to get steady and real growth as I have (and many others).

Edited June 27, 2019 by Matt8800

[mandyjw]

3 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

@mandyjw There is no issue with people that choose to not do psychedelics.

If you are averse to OTHER people making a choice to use a tool that you dont know anything about, isnt it a good idea to just admit that maybe people that do have experience are more qualified to have an opinion?

What OTHER people? That's the illusion we're all trying to dissolve. Everyone's opinion is essentially going to be flawed by their own limited experience. 

This is Leo's forum. Leo has chosen to enthusiastically embrace the path of psychedelics for a prolonged time. He has stated that no opinions outside of those who have experience with psychedelics are useful and he also often points out the sentiment that those who decide not to use them are essentially wasting their life. This is separation, cutting off others and essentially cutting off oneself. 

We need some to explore psychedelics and others to reject them. Why? Because that is what is happening. 

The real work is reconciling with each other and understanding each other as the One that is our real nature. Telling people not to share opinions if they don't have experience with something is a red flag, a distraction from real understanding. The more of that kind of separation I see around something the more I know that something needs to be healed. 

[mandyjw]

7 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

This is based on the assumption that people that use psychedelics are simply chasing an experience.

This may be true for some but not others. I am referring to people that use psychedelics and continue to get steady and real growth as I have.

What growth and who is the one measuring and attaining that growth? 

That's the question that when asked, things really seem to fall apart. 

This work is a building of oneself up to break One's self down. 

[Matt8800]

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

What OTHER people? That's the illusion we're all trying to dissolve. Everyone's opinion is essentially going to be flawed by their own limited experience. 

This is Leo's forum. Leo has chosen to enthusiastically embrace the path of psychedelics for a prolonged time. He has stated that no opinions outside of those who have experience with psychedelics are useful and he also often points out the sentiment that those who decide not to use them are essentially wasting their life. This is separation, cutting off others and essentially cutting off oneself. 

We need some to explore psychedelics and others to reject them. Why? Because that is what is happening. 

The real work is reconciling with each other and understanding each other as the One that is our real nature. Telling people not to share opinions if they don't have experience with something is a red flag, a distraction from real understanding. The more of that kind of separation I see around something the more I know that something needs to be healed. 

My suggestion is simply to seek truth, regardless of egoic reaction.

If you want to do psychedelics, do them. If not, dont. That is my point.

Frankly, I have no use for other people's opinions that is not based in direct experience.

[Matt8800]

3 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

What growth and who is the one measuring and attaining that growth? 

That's the question that when asked, things really seem to fall apart. 

This work is a building of oneself up to break One's self down. 

My growth and I am the one measuring and attaining that growth. If anyone has contrary opinions, I expect them to back it up if Im going to take it seriously.

Asking for a quantifiable example of growth is like asking someone to explain a psychedelic experience. Only direct experience matters ultimately. 

[Key Elements]

6 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

This is based on the assumption that people that use psychedelics are simply chasing an experience.

This may be true for some but not others. I am referring to people that use psychedelics and continue to get steady and real growth as I have (and many others).

Assume? I said it that it doesn't matter whether you take psychedelics or not.

If a person continues to get steady growth, that's great. However, how is it that you're going to show it? In general, ppl do want to improve their lives. That's by nature. You're not going to improve ppl's lives by going around telling them over and over again that you are God and that you created this world.

Actions speak louder than words. What is your life purpose? If you go around telling ppl, it's not effective.

[SunnyNewDay]

I think it's fear and doubt in their own path or on the flip side of the coin it's not seeing how many paths lead to love and divinity. 

[Matt8800]

8 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Assume? I said it that it doesn't matter whether you take psychedelics or not.

If a person continues to get steady growth, that's great. However, how is it that you're going to show it? In general, ppl do want to improve their lives. That's by nature. You're not going to improve ppl's lives by going around telling them over and over again that you are God and that you created this world.

Actions speak louder than words. What is your life purpose? If you go around telling ppl, it's not effective.

Life purpose and growth assessment is purely subjective, as it should be. Thats why I find it interesting that inexperienced people make assumptions about the value, or lack thereof, that others experience of psychedelics.

If anyone (including people like Sadhguru) contradict my direct experience, I always choose direct experience to find truth.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Matt8800