Why Some Seekers Reject Psychedelics

[Matt8800]

27 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Maybe some ppl think like that. Then, there are ppl who think like that and after some time change their opinions. Looks like someone planted the right seeds, or they discovered the right seeds.

For instance, I'm not going to go around calling stage blue ppl "losers." Ppl do come out of it.

agreed. im simply stating some statements are true and some are false. what people do with that is up to them but lying to ourselves is of no benefit.

I never called anyone a loser. Any feeling that I did is just someones projection.

[abrakamowse]

2 hours ago, mandyjw said:

This is something that I'm trying to figure out myself so I hope my perspective makes sense here. I had a recent awakening and I have never taken any drugs. A big part of my practice right now is letting go of the mystical experiences I had and not missing them or holding them as an ideal. It doesn't matter how you get to have mystical experiences, spontaneously, through psychedelics, or whatever method, those experiences are all meant to be let go of. 

It's not right to look at other people's paths and pick them apart or project where we are and what we are dealing with onto someone else. But at the same time that's how we going about understanding the world and other people. When I see other people continuously using pyschedelics rather than using them and letting go of them, I feel afraid and concerned for myself that I won't be successful in letting the memory/desire for my own mystical experiences go. 

It feels like being stuck in the in between. I just want to see us all either transcend it or settle into it, whichever is meant to be.

That's a very valuable POV. I agree with what you say Mandy. Good point and thanks for sharing it.

I am always trying to have another mystical experience and you made me remember that this is not about that kind of experiences. We need to let them go.

Edited June 27, 2019 by abrakamowse

[Key Elements]

@mandyjw @abrakamowse I agree with the both of you too. That's why I said in this thread, the 10 Ox Herding Pics doesn't end in Riding the Ox Backwards. It ends with the Cloth Bag Monk.

[Shin]

Yeah that's the hugest trap of using psychedelics

Using them to get more mystical experiences
Rather than embody the experience fully and then go for it later again

That's just chasing something just like any other type of chasing, it's just more "spiritually" accepted.

[Truth Addict]

@Matt8800 I agree with your OP, except for that direct experience is real. Because when we usually talk about direct experience, we don't strip the interpretation out of it.

 

[DrewNows]

You know what they about opinions, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one so don’t take them too personally, if you are then perhaps it’s idolizing  

 

guess I like Teal Swan’s....?

[Matt8800]

17 minutes ago, Shin said:

Yeah that's the hugest trap of using psychedelics

Using them to get more mystical experiences
Rather than embody the experience fully and then go for it later again

That's just chasing something just like any other type of chasing, it's just more "spiritually" accepted.

Some individuals motivations for doing psychedelics are healthy and some are unhealthy but that is the case with many things.

[Matt8800]

19 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@Matt8800 I agree with your OP, except for that direct experience is real. Because when we usually talk about direct experience, we don't strip the interpretation out of it.

 

Direct experience is always real. Interpretation is subjective.

[Truth Addict]

4 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

Direct experience is always real.

How do you know?

[Matt8800]

23 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

How do you know?

Direct experience is the ONLY thing that we can know to be real. I think this should be fairly obvious to anyone that looks.

If you disagree, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Matt8800

[Nahm]

The pesky dots of yin & yang. I have a buddy who would physically die if he had even a 1 gram dose of shrooms, and yet another friend of mine did die from taking only 2 grams. 

 

29 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

How do you know?

Just out of curiosity...were you going to believe his answer, or not believe his answer. 

 

@Matt8800 Great thread. It’s like A Course In Miracles playing out in real life. 

[Truth Addict]

21 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

Direct experience is the ONLY thing that we can know to be real. I think this should be fairly obvious to anyone that looks.

Assume that I'm dumb, and please bear with me.

Could you please give an example of how direct experience is real?

21 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

If you disagree, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

I'm not trying to disagree or share perspectives. I'm trying to connect some dots.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Truth Addict]

@Nahm

Just out of curiosity...are you going to believe my answer, or not believe my answer? ??

No, seriously. I'm up to something here.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Matt8800]

19 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Assume that I'm dumb, and please bear with me.

Could you please give an example of how direct experience is real?

I'm not trying to disagree or share perspectives. I'm trying to connect some dots.

Sorry, I misunderstood why you were asking.

This is a point that becomes much more clear with psychedelics. It is a very important insight in my opinion.

I can use one example and that should illustrate the overall point.

If you are looking at the monitor in front of you, is the monitor "real"? Quantum physics would say no (Leo does a video on quantum physics that covers this point well). Is the color blue "real"? You can go down the list endlessly and what you will discover is that only your subjective experience is real. Your awareness of thoughts, feelings and senses that are processed by the animal/human brain and body is the only thing that is subjectively real.

Everything other than direct experience is simply interpretation of your direct experience as interpreted by the animal brain. Confusing interpretation of experience with actual direct experience is like confusing the map for the territory. The map isnt "real"; the territory is.

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Matt8800

[Bill W]

59 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

Direct experience is always real. Interpretation is subjective.

Real to you.

Mostly you interpret your "direct experience" to mean something. You cannot escape that much direct experience is an interpretation and therefore subjective. 

Burning yourself on a red hot stove is direct experience. Not much interpretation if any is applicable. The direct experience is pain. I think this is what you mean. Only a tiny fraction of your direct experience can avoid being an interpretation and therefore subjective. 

It sounds like you are almost saying that you have managed to short-circuit your brain and stop it from making an interpretation of your direct experience. 

Why don't you tell us some of the things you have down as direct experience and we can let you know if they are subjective or not. 

EDIT: I think I missed your post above which may have partly answered my post, so this might not be relevant now. 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Bill W
I had a stroke and my head hit the keyboard

[Matt8800]

23 minutes ago, Nahm said:

 

 

@Matt8800 Great thread. It’s like A Course In Miracles playing out in real life. 

Thank you

[Forestluv]

What’s the best route to Here?

[Matt8800]

59 minutes ago, Bill W said:

Real to you.

Mostly you interpret your "direct experience" to mean something. You cannot escape that much direct experience is an interpretation and therefore subjective. 

Burning yourself on a red hot stove is direct experience. Not much interpretation if any is applicable. The direct experience is pain. I think this is what you mean. Only a tiny fraction of your direct experience can avoid being an interpretation and therefore subjective. 

It sounds like you are almost saying that you have managed to short-circuit your brain and stop it from making an interpretation of your direct experience. 

Why don't you tell us some of the things you have down as direct experience and we can let you know if they are subjective or not. 

My direct experience is that there is awareness of thoughts, feelings and senses as they are processed by an animal brain and body in flow of the present moment. 

Whether you "really" burned yourself on the stove or you are in a simulation to make you think there is a "hand" that is "burning" on the "stove" is just more interpretation.

What is "applicable" is just more interpretation.

Pain is an illusion. There are signals that travel up the arm and are processed by the animal brain. The brain interprets those signals. The real Self is aware of those signals but "you" never came in direct contact with the source of the "pain" (you are not your hand).

Anyone can short circuit their mind to separate interpretation from experience, which is the whole point of meditation. It takes a lot of meditation to dissolve the ego but it can be done. Many long time meditators will never accomplish it. I would have never gotten this far if my path did not include psychedelics.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Matt8800

[abrakamowse]

51 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

What’s the best route to Here?

Go far away and then come back. 

[abrakamowse]

2 hours ago, Key Elements said:

@mandyjw @abrakamowse I agree with the both of you too. That's why I said in this thread, the 10 Ox Herding Pics doesn't end in Riding the Ox Backwards. It ends with the Cloth Bag Monk.

So true. I am always thinking on having an experience which will help me understand more the nature of reality, and that will never happen really.