Sadhguru on psychedelics.

[Garuda]

5 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

• Buddha
• Om Swami
• Ramana Maharshi
• Bodhidharma
• Osho
• Mahavira

Do I need to go on?

This is just India. This doesn’t even include other people outside of India.

 

• Buddha - Incarnation of Vishnu/ he did have a Guru also said that earlier on the thread
• Om Swami - Going to read his story.
• Ramana Maharshi - You didnt read the whole thread. Arunachala is his Guru.
• Bodhidharma - Thought we were talking about Hindu's only. But will look into him as well.
• Osho - not even enlightened dude was a mess.
• Mahavira - Again thought we were talking about Hindu's only but none the less Jains are from the Vishnu side (read last page also Read up on the 1st Tirthankara.) and there is alot of Mahavira's story that is missing.  

[Preetom]

1 hour ago, Garuda said:

Lol this is where it gets so messy.

But the Guru term Im talking about would be:

-Om swami left his Guru.

-Then got enlightened and realised he did it with the help of his Guru that he left and went back to him, 

Im assuming he didnt do that. 

None the less I will look into his story.

@Leo Gura

BTW Om Swami materialized a vision and corresponding interaction with Goddess Kali as his supposedly culmimating ''enlightenment experience". For 11 months, he did all sorts of tantra rituals and visualization contemplations of Kali for this enlightenment experience.

So in this sense, Om Swami is from the lineage of Mother Kali or Shakti.

Extraordinary indian sages who 'seemed' to wake up without any guru were still part of a lineage eg. Shiva, Vishnu, Kali etc

So the point is, the non-existent ego or person never gets enlightened with its efforts. Its always the grace of God at work. Now that grace can work through a flesh guru or a powder or an idea about God or various other means.

1 hour ago, kieranperez said:

• It’s as though you’re assuming extreme hard work is a hinderance and something to be avoided. If that’s actually what you’re regurgitating then you’re kidding yourself.
• If you’re trying to say ascetics aren’t woke as fuck than yeah you’re just flat out wrong on that. 

dude study what samskaras or latent tendencies are. Even aspects of the great Jana yoga like a strong drive for the Truth or what one is, are all samskaras.

People are born with these latent tendencies. In fact a person is nothing but a jumble of his/her tendencies with a sense of I.

Asceticism is similarly another tendency. Its not an end in itself. 

I am not bashing against effort, discipline, puritanical lifestyle etc. All of them have their uses based on the context.

But just asceticism and neurotic effort does not necessarily imply high consciousness and understanding. One can be an incessant gym rat or sit on one's ass for 20 hours with herculean effort- but that doesn't automatically imply high consciousness and understanding.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Preetom

[Toby]

It's really a sign how awake you are if you think "Guru" is something / someone other than you or outside of you.

[Preetom]

29 minutes ago, Garuda said:

• .
• Osho - not even enlightened dude was a mess.
•  

Even if we take Osho as enlightened, he was from the lineage of Shiva.

He was a practitioner and master of kashmir shaivism. From his young teenage years, he practiced all 108(or maybe 112) spiritual techniques mentioned in the Vijnana vairaba tantra, which is basically spiritual instruction laid down to Parvati by Shiva himself.

Osho did all that and realized that in any spiritual practice or activity, it is the consciousness aspect that is the most important factor. And yet religious people make that very blunder of abandoning consciousness while mindlessly following rules, dogmas and rituals.

And that's why the cornerstone technique of Osho  was 'witnessing'. His message was whatever the fuck you wanna do in life, do it, but do it with consciousness. Never omit this knowing element.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Preetom

[Anton_Pierre]

@Preetom I love that!

[kieranperez]

2 hours ago, Preetom said:

dude study what samskaras or latent tendencies are. Even aspects of the great Jana yoga like a strong drive for the Truth or what one is, are all samskaras.

People are born with these latent tendencies. In fact a person is nothing but a jumble of his/her tendencies with a sense of I.

Asceticism is similarly another tendency. Its not an end in itself. 

I am not bashing against effort, discipline, puritanical lifestyle etc. All of them have their uses based on the context.

But just asceticism and neurotic effort does not necessarily imply high consciousness and understanding. One can be an incessant gym rat or sit on one's ass for 20 hours with herculean effort- but that doesn't automatically imply high consciousness and understanding.

Dude you’re point is irrelevant. 

Yes and you can meditate all day long and that doesn’t make you enlightened. Much less worshipping a sole person that were calling a guru.

To say asceticism just neurotic nonsense is itself nonsense. 

3 hours ago, Garuda said:

Buddha - Incarnation of Vishnu/ he did have a Guru also said that earlier on the thread

This is a conceptual and cultural fantasy. Look at the story of Buddha beyond not your rigid dogmatic Indian culturally distorted lens. 

3 hours ago, Garuda said:

Ramana Maharshi - You didnt read the whole thread. Arunachala is his Guru.

LOL this notion that God is some dualistic thing you’re learning from is a cultural fantasy. That somehow some fucking mountain is somehow more special than any other mountain. This is fantasy. Everything is God. Everything is Shiva. Nothing is more Shiva than anything else. Ramana Maharshi had his massive enlightenment in his room as a 16 year old and spend years in a temple meditating in such a deep trance that he almost died. Your clinging to some fucking mountain as more special is cultural baggage. Yes there’s probably a lot of strong subtle energy there but that doesn’t make something more Shiva than anything else. 

3 hours ago, Garuda said:

Osho - not even enlightened dude was a mess.

If you’re REALLY trying to suggest Osho wasn’t enlightened then you’re kidding yourself. Period.

You can be deeply enlightened and still have your life in shambles. 

That doesn’t discredit Osho nor anyone else’s nondual consciousness and understanding.

3 hours ago, Garuda said:

Bodhidharma - Thought we were talking about Hindu's only. But will look into him as well.

Bodhidharma is from India. Not that it matters.

3 hours ago, Garuda said:

• Mahavira - Again thought we were talking about Hindu's only but none the less Jains are from the Vishnu side (read last page also Read up on the 1st Tirthankara.) and there is alot of Mahavira's story that is missing.  

You’re making such a silly distinction. Mahavira is a strong influential force in India. 

Once again. Cultural conceptual baggage and stories. Look at the actual person’s life. Don’t give me some religious scholastic story that bears no evidence nor accuracy.

3 hours ago, Preetom said:

BTW Om Swami materialized a vision and corresponding interaction with Goddess Kali as his supposedly culmimating ''enlightenment experience". For 11 months, he did all sorts of tantra rituals and visualization contemplations of Kali for this enlightenment experience.

So in this sense, Om Swami is from the lineage of Mother Kali or Shakti.

Extraordinary indian sages who 'seemed' to wake up without any guru were still part of a lineage eg. Shiva, Vishnu, Kali etc

So the point is, the non-existent ego or person never gets enlightened with its efforts. Its always the grace of God at work. Now that grace can work through a flesh guru or a powder or an idea about God or various other means.

Having a lineage and tradition that works for you is different than submitting yourself to some other person. Those are two different things. Having a teacher you go to and eventually go beyond is very different than purely being a discipline and sannyasi to Sadhguru for example. That is what’s what’s being addressed here.

Kali is Om. Om is Kali. Om is very much aware of that.

Youre nitpicking is you not wanting to look at the actual story. 

The far majority of deeply enlightened masters did most of the heavy lifting on their own. This brings more results because those people have a thirst for Truth so they take full responsibility for their craving. Which is why even most people who are into nonduality in practice often don’t go all the way. They don’t want it enough. Which is to say though should. However, those rare indivuals go to the source directly without distraction. No guru is going to do the work for you nor was it going to do it for them.  

[mandyjw]

You're driving the car but Henry Ford invented it, several other people assembled it, and all the tax payers paid for the roads you're driving it on. It takes a lot of things coming together just right to make any thing happen at all. This is why you can never be (can be) enlightened. 

[Garuda]

3 hours ago, Preetom said:

@Leo Gura

BTW Om Swami materialized a vision and corresponding interaction with Goddess Kali as his supposedly culmimating ''enlightenment experience". For 11 months, he did all sorts of tantra rituals and visualization contemplations of Kali for this enlightenment experience.

So in this sense, Om Swami is from the lineage of Mother Kali or Shakti.

Extraordinary indian sages who 'seemed' to wake up without any guru were still part of a lineage eg. Shiva, Vishnu, Kali etc

So the point is, the non-existent ego or person never gets enlightened with its efforts. Its always the grace of God at work. Now that grace can work through a flesh guru or a powder or an idea about God or various other means.

Nice Preetom, Probably saved me effort into reading his story.
 

 

 

23 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

 

LOL this notion that God is some dualistic thing you’re learning from is a cultural fantasy. That somehow some fucking mountain is somehow more special than any other mountain. This is fantasy. Everything is God. Everything is Shiva. Nothing is more Shiva than anything else. Ramana Maharshi had his massive enlightenment in his room as a 16 year old and spend years in a temple meditating in such a deep trance that he almost died. Your clinging to some fucking mountain as more special is cultural baggage. Yes there’s probably a lot of strong subtle energy there but that doesn’t make something more Shiva than anything else. 

I

Very funny how you LOL at Arunachala being the same as other mountains. 

You westerners need to educate yourselfs before you start talking about other cultures. LOL I didnt even mention anything about Dualism. 

Since your so caught up on non dualism and how a physical God/Guru has no relevance;

Go read up on Vallabhacharya and how he conducted him self and taught about God. 

He taught Shuddadvaita"pure non-dualism" which  is the "purely non-dual" philosophy propounded by Vallabhacharya. Vallabhacharya's pure form (nondualist) philosophy is different from Advaita.

 

 

 

 

 

[Anton_Pierre]

An analogy for a guru is, a boat tied to a dock and then the boat floats away from the dock, but it's fine because the guru is holding the rope, or so he thinks. It's kinda like how a child rides a bike down the park and his father is there to hold him and he's souring and he's free, happy and laughing. He looks back and he see's his father is gone and that he was riding it himself the whole time. 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Anton_Pierre

[Leo Gura]

Lol

In that case maybe you should take on OJ Simpson as your guru.

Look at the mental gymnastics people here go through to preserve the myth that enlightenment can only come by following a guru.

Learning from teachers/people is not the same as devotion to a guru.

[Anton_Pierre]

@Leo Gura Lol, I channel you sometimes, so I don't see what the problem is.

[Leo Gura]

Just now, Anton_Pierre said:

@Leo Gura Lol, I channel you sometimes, so I don't see what the problem is.

The problem is you imagine me. So you're not channeling me, you're inventing me.

[Anton_Pierre]

@Leo Gura I know, but it works, also are you sure solipsism is the highest chakra or is it omnipresence? ;s

Edited June 28, 2019 by Anton_Pierre

[Leo Gura]

@Anton_Pierre I never said solipsism.

Infinite Consciousness is way beyond solipsism. But it is singular.

[ahmad ibdah]

@Leo Gura

 leo do you still practice daily or did you quit practicing and now depend only on psychedelics?

[Anton_Pierre]

@Leo Gura How do we explain entering into the skull of the Godhead, because that's another altered state of consciousness.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Anton_Pierre

[kieranperez]

39 minutes ago, Garuda said:

Very funny how you LOL at Arunachala being the same as other mountains. 

You westerners need to educate yourselfs before you start talking about other cultures. LOL I didnt even mention anything about Dualism. 

Since your so caught up on non dualism and how a physical God/Guru has no relevance;

Go read up on Vallabhacharya and how he conducted him self and taught about God. 

He taught Shuddadvaita"pure non-dualism" which  is the "purely non-dual" philosophy propounded by Vallabhacharya. Vallabhacharya's pure form (nondualist) philosophy is different from Advaita.

You wanna keep regurgitating nondaul scholastic regurgitstation? Or are you gonna start thinking for yourself? 

Let me be clear because the fundamental assumption is clear: THERE IS NOTHING MORE SPECIAL ABOUT INDIA, ARUNACHALA, HIMALAYAS THAN ANYWHERE ELSE.

Your little Indian turf ain’t more sacred than anything else. Yoga is a technology that was invented. Advaita is an invention and partial interpretation. Jainism is an invention and partial interpretation. As is every tradition and interpretion of Truth. 

SHIVA LITERALLY MEANS “THAT WHICH IS NOT”. What you’re calling as Shiva doesn’t have a more special little turf in one spot than any other. Everything is sacred. Nothing is more sacred than anything else. 

If you wanna create this duality with me as “a westerner”, by all means. That’s just you abusing the core of what you’re trying to preach. 

I’ll say it again since you dodged it: geographical places that maybe more active in subtle and psychic energy does exist and is a real thing (as any other hallucination). However, that’s not some Hindu, Vedic, blah blah blah little thing. That’s a function of existence itself. India doesn’t have turf on that or anything. 

Psychic subtle energy in certain spaces, whether it be himalayas, arunachala, or any other space AROUND THE WORLD is a function of deeply woke people spending a lot of time there and happened to leave “residue” there. 

I suggest you drop this duality of “westerners”. I’m as much related to you as I am a person in Africa I haven’t met or someone here in the US. If you want to be unconscious enough to draw your little turf out of fear, do you dog. I don’t care.

All of this is clearly and merely academic and theoretical for you. 

[Chi_]

@kieranperez   Just want to add something onto what you said. According to Sadhguru, Shiva both refers to 'that which is not' and also the first yogi from whom yoga apparently stems from. He was so deeply enlightened that they refer to both as just Shiva, as you can't separate the two. 

[kieranperez]

2 minutes ago, Chi_ said:

According to Sadhguru, Shiva both refers to 'that which is not' and also the first yogi from whom yoga apparently stems from. He was so deeply enlightened that they refer to both as just Shiva, as you can't separate the two. 

And according to Sadhguru you can’t have an enlightenment on psychedelics.

I don’t doubt the possibility that there isn’t some alien entity that came down and had such a deep understanding that it provided us with a process towards spiritual realization. A lot of ties connect to those possibilities. However that’s not exclusive to India. 

However, if we’re gonna be honest here and care about truth, we gotta play devils advocate too and put skepticism to that of how do we actually know how true that was the case? WE DON’T. Nor does it really truly matter at the end of the day. Are we here to be historians (and not be able to validate anything at the end of the day since all of that is still our/my/your own mind) or realize what’s actually true? 

[mandyjw]

@kieranperez If your faith is strong you can move mountains, you could also make them into sacred places too if you wanted. 

Stop getting so distracted what's true for others and find what's true for you. It's all true/false anyway.