Sadhguru on psychedelics.

[Garuda]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Garuda So by your logic Hindus are the only humans to discover God?

Lol

All of those lineages are imaginary. You don't need a lineage to discover God because you are God! All lineages start and end with YOU.

@Leo Gura

No Sir.

Thats just the system for Hindu's. Other religions may have another system.

You may not like that, as the system should technically be the same for all but you cant speak technically about enlightenment.

 

Also the last statement is unfair in terms its too blunt and direct. 

A better one would be God is within, and for the Hindu system you need a Guru to help you realise that.

But hey. Maybe for your system/ path DMT is your 'Guru'.

 

[Leo Gura]

@Garuda Even within India you will find many people who awoke spontaneously without any guru.

You confuse tradition with some deeper reality.

[Bobby]

On 6/26/2019 at 9:28 AM, Matt8800 said:

You could just as easily say he can turn into a unicorn at will. 

Regarding his legit powers, his spiritual powers can be easily reproduced by many occultist. I would resist thinking he is something above what others can do.

 

Yea you can literally sign up for courses online that’ll teach you how to develop various siddhis.

[Bobby]

18 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

Psychedelics are very ineffective in terms of giving people persistent shifts in consciousness (what most people consider enlightenment/awakening). They are very effective in giving people temporal samadhi/Ultimate reality/ego death experiences. Thousands have awakened through meditation and related techniques while being sober. How many cases of awakening through psychedelics there are 1? 2?

David Carse, Martin Ball

[Garuda]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Garuda Even within India you will find many people who awoke spontaneously without any guru.

You confuse tradition with some deeper reality.

@Leo Gura

Can you give us some names pls. 

Its not to dispute/argue with you just want to look into it.

Thanks

[Leo Gura]

@Garuda Read Om Swami's biography. He ditched his useless corrupt guru and became enlightened by himself in a cave in the Himalayas in the middle of winter. The guru did nothing but keep him from enlightenment.

[mandyjw]

Before we had a global market, people's diets varied widely all over the world depending on what food they had available in their region. Not everything you see is edible but everything can be a spiritual experience if you use it with the right intention. 

[Toby]

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Garuda Read Om Swami's biography. He ditched his useless corrupt guru and became enlightened by himself in a cave in the Himalayas in the middle of winter. The guru did nothing but keep him from enlightenment.

Yeah, but isn't "read Om Swami" also following a guru (Om Swami)? Also you never know what role a guru played in helping someone who supposedly woke up without one, e.g. UG Krishnamurti who had a major shift at Jiddu Krishnamurti's talks while just walking out the door or something. UG would later say that waking up happened because he turned away from JK and JK played no role in it.

[Preetom]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Garuda Read Om Swami's biography. He ditched his useless corrupt guru and became enlightened by himself in a cave in the Himalayas in the middle of winter. The guru did nothing but keep him from enlightenment.

Not arguing for that arsehole of a guru Om Swami had. But how do you know that the guru didn't do exactly what Om Swami needed?

He cut short Om Swami's worldly mammoth ego to the size of a ping pong ball. The 'highly educated', 'intelligent', 'capable', 'millionaire' , "holy man on spiritual mission" om swami became another disposable trash in the guru's ashram as he was treated like one by his guru.

But Om Swami was wise enough to recognize even that as a blessing and he mentions it in the book. The guru even left an impression on Om Swami about where NOT to stop and what NOT to become down the line.

My point is, this might go so deep and intricate that we can never figure out the workings of it. On the other hand, it could be all hoax and there is no mechanism at all. Who knows?

After all, we only got our own imagination ?

Edited June 28, 2019 by Preetom

[pluto]

If God came down in human form do you think he would judge you if you chose a particular path or belief system? That is not an expression of Unconditional Love, that is not true godliness. True godliness is non-judgemental, total acceptance, absolute surrender.

There are no right or wrongs because in the end you are the only identity left. Now, if you know whats best for you and go against it, of course you will suffer but no one can know the self better than you. All is within, tune in.

 

 

[mandyjw]

Rebellion and devotion are ultimately, the same thing. 

[SunnyNewDay]

@Leo Gura would you say bad trips are akin to dark night of the soul experiences through meditation? I had a few bad trips and I found working through and with this devil has been a lot more efficient and effective with Ayahuasca... and full of LIFE AND LOVE AND SPIRIT... where when I was doing Vipassana it was more traumatic and lacking love and full of so much delusions and solid physical... I can sit now with my legs crossed for some time after using psychadelics whereas before five minutes with my legs crossed and i literally felt like a hot block of melted Chernobyl concrete... left me with a lot of problems actually and I can see now how problems mixed with certain meditation traditions can be just as dangerous as the wrap psychadelics get. I don't want to become dogmatic and rigid or stage blue with a modality personally (still honor, thank, surrender to it, etc.) because I don't think THAT the modality itself is all of God but I think every modality is different and each technique is important depending in the person, their past, their problems, their physical shape/illness/mind, etc. It's so paradoxical and confusing and beautiful. 

Edited June 28, 2019 by SunnyNewDay

[Matt8800]

14 hours ago, Garuda said:

@Leo Gura

We dont know of anyone who has gotten enlightened by Psychedelics only, but have numerous cases of people getting enlightened with a human Guru.

So your statements are false. 

Psychedelics have been used in the past (example Soma Juice, not sure if you are familiar with it), Although Soma is not as potent as 5-MeO it has been shown only to get to the outer fringes of enlightenment and not to the final step, also it has been talked about for millennia via the Bhagavad Gita and numerous other spiritual texts.

@garuda No, nobody gets enlightened on psychedelics ONLY but for plenty it has been a critical tool in their enlightenment.

You dont know about Soma because nobody does. That substance has been lost for a long time. This should be an indication that you absorb beliefs without evidence. Your beliefs about psychedelics show the same thing. Something to think about.

[Tetcher]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Garuda became enlightened by himself in a cave in the Himalayas in the middle of winter

Holy hell those guys are monsters, imagine sticking to your practices in such extreme conditions. But that's strange how did he eat there ? It must have been a cave near a living point where there was food and some relief at least. Those people were enlightened in a sense before the ultimate realization arose.  Apparently ascetism is the most powerful path to attain, but to stick to an ascetic path you already have to be somewhat enlightened so I'm not sure what this is all about, it's like the chicken or egg problem.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Tetcher

[Matt8800]

12 hours ago, Garuda said:

@Leo Gura

In Hinduism the Guru lineage ends up at either Shiva or VIshnu its not Infinity. (well I guess you can call it infinity as they are God) 

They are  supreme. And the Vedas proclaim Shiva and Vishnu to be one and the same. Thats how it works. Im surprised you didn't know this??

For example Ramana Maharshi's Guru was from the Shiva side. And other enlightened beings come from Vishnu side.

And Buddha was from the Vishnu side. He had a Guru also which traces back all the way up. (but there are also Indications are Buddha was an incarnation of Vishnu him self...)

Thats one way to see if an Indian is legit enlightened as they should have a guru lineage that ends up to either Vishnu or Shiva.  (there is a female deity but I havent looked into that one much). 

Test it out for your self. Think of a Hindu that you think was enlightened and check their lineage and I assure that theory would work.

Thinking that only Indians can be enlightened is just more delusion....

[Preetom]

1 minute ago, Tetcher said:

Holly hell those guys are monsters, imagine sticking to your practices in such extreme conditions. But that's strange how did he eat there ? It must have been a cave near a living point where there was food and some relief at least. Those people were enlightened in a sense before the ultimate realization arose.  Apparently ascetism is the most powerful path to attain, but to stick to an ascetic path you already have to be somewhat enlightened so I'm not sure what this is all about, it's like the snake eating its own tail.

He had another fellow monk who gathered and cooked food for him like twice everyday..for like 11 months.

Most ascetics are closet mosochists. Just another samskara. You can see similar traits in some athletes or hard working people.

? ?

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

Rebellion and devotion are ultimately, the same thing. 

Indeed. ♥️ That insight’s got kids written all over it.  

[mandyjw]

20 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Indeed. ♥️ That insight’s got kids written all over it.  

That one is courtesy of my own inner child. 

[kieranperez]

4 hours ago, Garuda said:

@Leo Gura

Can you give us some names pls. 

Its not to dispute/argue with you just want to look into it.

Thanks

• Buddha
• Om Swami
• Ramana Maharshi
• Bodhidharma
• Osho
• Mahavira

Do I need to go on?

This is just India. This doesn’t even include other people outside of India.

3 hours ago, Toby said:

Yeah, but isn't "read Om Swami" also following a guru (Om Swami)?

NO!

All because you have some stuff to learn from a particular teacher doesn’t AT ALL mean he’s just this one and only guru for you. You learn from multiple sources and multiple people. That doesn’t make them your guru and you’re devoted to them. 

2 hours ago, Preetom said:

Most ascetics are closet mosochists. Just another samskara. You can see similar traits in some athletes or hard working people.

The Buddha 

It’s as though you’re assuming extreme hard work is a hinderance and something to be avoided. If that’s actually what you’re regurgitating then you’re kidding yourself. 

If you’re trying to say ascetics aren’t woke as fuck than yeah you’re just flat out wrong on that. 

[Garuda]

3 hours ago, Preetom said:

Not arguing for that arsehole of a guru Om Swami had. But how do you know that the guru didn't do exactly what Om Swami needed?

He cut short Om Swami's worldly mammoth ego to the size of a ping pong ball. The 'highly educated', 'intelligent', 'capable', 'millionaire' , "holy man on spiritual mission" om swami became another disposable trash in the guru's ashram as he was treated like one by his guru.

But Om Swami was wise enough to recognize even that as a blessing and he mentions it in the book. The guru even left an impression on Om Swami about where NOT to stop and what NOT to become down the line.

My point is, this might go so deep and intricate that we can never figure out the workings of it. On the other hand, it could be all hoax and there is no mechanism at all. Who knows?

After all, we only got our own imagination ?

Lol this is where it gets so messy.

But the Guru term Im talking about would be:

-Om swami left his Guru.

-Then got enlightened and realised he did it with the help of his Guru that he left and went back to him, 

Im assuming he didnt do that. 

None the less I will look into his story.

 

2 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

@garuda No, nobody gets enlightened on psychedelics ONLY but for plenty it has been a critical tool in their enlightenment.

You dont know about Soma because nobody does. That substance has been lost for a long time. This should be an indication that you absorb beliefs without evidence. Your beliefs about psychedelics show the same thing. Something to think about.

True I don't know what it exactly is but its most likely a plant based psychedelic. I never said I knew what it was made of, I know what the effects are from reading scriptures. And reading peoples DMT experiences it is clear to me DMT> SOMA in terms of potentency and its ability for you to dive deeper within. 

 

2 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

Thinking that only Indians can be enlightened is just more delusion....

I never intended it to come out like that. If you read the entire thread before posting you would have seen my reply to Leo when he said the same thing.