Sadhguru on psychedelics.

[Kensho]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Blablablablabla....

Exactly. 

And then you have this testimony

 

[Kensho]

Rule: If one hasn't tried psychedelics a few times, he is not qualified to talk about them. Only assumptions and blablabla.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Kensho
corrected language error

[Preetom]

15 minutes ago, Kensho said:

Exactly. 

And then you have this testimony

 

Nice cosmic dance skills in the intro ?

[Kensho]

27 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Nice cosmic dance skills in the intro ?

 You couldn't expect less from a guy with that taste in armchairs 

 

[Enlightenment]

Psychedelics are very ineffective in terms of giving people persistent shifts in consciousness (what most people consider enlightenment/awakening). They are very effective in giving people temporal samadhi/Ultimate reality/ego death experiences. Thousands have awakened through meditation and related techniques while being sober. How many cases of awakening through psychedelics there are 1? 2?

[Matt8800]

12 hours ago, Anton_Pierre said:

@Leo Gura Drugs can damage the yogic system. 

Sure you may use them initally, however they are seductive by nature.

A spiritual man must never be seduced or else you'll end up like Mooji, lol (I don't know if that story is true or not)

It's better to build up to it in a pleasant way through building up the breath overtime in your system, so you will progress at a rate that doesn't make you imbalanced and psychotic.

It also instils disipline which is very much required for spiritual seekers, to do the spiritual practices.

The average person wanting to do phycedelics should minimun do 5 years of natural spiritual practices. 

You don't put a noobie to the gym on steroids.  

 

Unsubstantiated, biased assumptions...

[Matt8800]

54 minutes ago, Enlightenment said:

Psychedelics are very ineffective in terms of giving people persistent shifts in consciousness (what most people consider enlightenment/awakening). They are very effective in giving people temporal samadhi/Ultimate reality/ego death experiences. Thousands have awakened through meditation and related techniques while being sober. How many cases of awakening through psychedelics there are 1? 2?

@Enlightenment There is one right here.

I smoked DMT about 3.5 years ago. I didnt meditate nor was I a spiritual seeker at that time. The night of DMT, I met my inner guru that told me that love is the most important thing, suffering is an illusion, beauty is everywhere (even if we dont see it) and that I needed to start meditating daily starting immediately.

I have meditated every day since. DMT radically changed my life permanently. 

If this is something you are pulled inside to reject, you should search yourself as to why. Is it possible that you have chosen not to do psychedelics and you dont want to believe that others may have an advantage you dont?

Edited June 27, 2019 by Matt8800

[Tom T]

I love it when top notch advanced gurus fall into similar traps us normal people can fall into from time to time. It just shows there also just human at the end of the day and it just shows you how deep this self actualization thing goes and how much more there is to understand... even if your a top notch spiritual guru like sadhguru or Ralston or ken Wilber or the deli lama etc there's still so much more to understand about reality and self actualization 

[wavydude]

I tried psychedelics and mostly agree with what he said.

[Garuda]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

The most powerful technology is spiritual technology. The most advanced guru is psychedelics.

You will never meet a human guru more powerful than 5-MeO-DMT.

@Leo Gura

We dont know of anyone who has gotten enlightened by Psychedelics only, but have numerous cases of people getting enlightened with a human Guru.

So your statements are false. 

Psychedelics have been used in the past (example Soma Juice, not sure if you are familiar with it), Although Soma is not as potent as 5-MeO it has been shown only to get to the outer fringes of enlightenment and not to the final step, also it has been talked about for millennia via the Bhagavad Gita and numerous other spiritual texts.

[Leo Gura]

54 minutes ago, Garuda said:

but have numerous cases of people getting enlightened with a human Guru.

So your statements are false.

We have zero evidence that people have become as conscious via a human guru as a 5-MeO-DMT peak.

I highly doubt it.

People who follow and depend upon human gurus, in my experience, are not very conscious at all. Which is precisely why they worship the guru. They are not conscious enough to realize that their guru is purely their own imagination at work. If they realized that, they'd stop worshiping the guru.

What I'm saying is, anyone who claims to be enlightened, I don't trust that they have gone all the way. They have some degree of realization, but probably not a very deep one. And if they follow any guru, I certainly don't trust them.

Which is not to say the guru is bad or wrong. It's just not an effective method of being highly conscious. People do it because they have not other options, no other tools. If they had 5-MeO-DMT they would realize the foolishness of following another human being or listening to any verbal teachings.

Verbal teachings are garbage, and even practices are too weak. And even the guru's shaktipat will be too weak to reach the levels of consciousness I am talking about. Those are only good when you have nothing better.

[Garuda]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

We have zero evidence that people have become as conscious via a human guru as a 5-MeO-DMT peak.

I highly doubt it.

People who follow and depend upon human gurus, in my experience, are not very conscious at all. Which is precisely why they worship the guru. They are not conscious enough to realize that their guru is purely their own imagination at work. If they realized that, they'd stop worshiping the guru.

What I'm saying is, anyone who claims to be enlightened, I don't trust that they have gone all the way. They have some degree of realization, but probably not a very deep one. And if they follow any guru, I certainly don't trust them.

Which is not to say the guru is bad or wrong. It's just not an effective method of being highly conscious. People do it because they have not other options, no other tools. If they had 5-MeO-DMT they would realize the foolishness of following another human being or listening to any verbal teachings.

Verbal teachings are garbage, and even practices are too weak. And even the guru's shaktipat will be too weak to reach the levels of consciousness I am talking about. Those are only good when you have nothing better.

@Leo Gura

Very interesting insight. Seems like DMT is be all and end all for you.

But by your Logic nobody in India had reached the peak you claim DMT provides. Every enlightened person from India had a Guru. (havent found a single one yet that didnt).

I guess by your standards nobody has reached Final enlightenment in the past as 5-MeO has only been used for the past few decades. 

There is a level beyond what anyone in the past has reached?

What would have happened if someone like Ramana Maharshi who fully dissolved his ego to the point where he said he had no mind, and had no more spiritual work to do, as he has supposedly reached the final stage, took DMT?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shadowraix]

Perhaps even people who are very enlightened have a comfort zone they are afraid to break. 

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Garuda said:

@Leo Gura

Very interesting insight. Seems like DMT is be all and end all for you.

But by your Logic nobody in India had reached the peak you claim DMT provides. Every enlightened person from India had a Guru. (havent found a single one yet that didnt).

By your logic no one could ever become enlightened since he would need a guru, and his guru would need a guru, and so on, to infinity. How did the very first guru become enlightened? Obviously he had no guru.

Obviously it's possible to become enlightened without a guru. And the most advanced people become enlightened on their own.

The Buddha was not following any guru. There are many examples in history of people doing it on their own.

It's also important to distinguish simply learning or getting advice from a teaching and devoting your life to following a guru. These are very different things. What I was talking about is devoting your life to a guru as a path to awakening. This is a poor path in my opinion. Getting advice from gurus is not a problem. The problem is when you start to expect the guru to be your actual vehicle to awakening. In that case you are using the guru exactly as one would use a psychedelic. Instead of a chemical guru you've found a human meat flesh guru.

Quote

I guess by your standards nobody has reached Final enlightenment in the past as 5-MeO has only been used for the past few decades. 

There is a level beyond what anyone in the past has reached?

No, exceptional people have done it and can do it. But the average person cannot.

You have to distinguish between freaks of nature and average people. Let's not pretend that everyone is like Sadhguru or the Buddha in their capabilities.

My advice is for average people, not supernatural freaks (who don't need any advice).

Quote

What would have happened if someone like Ramana Maharshi who fully dissolved his ego to the point where he said he had no mind, and had no more spiritual work to do, as he has supposedly reached the final stage, took DMT?

He was a freak. Don't compare average spiritual students to him.

If you are like Ramana Maharshi, you don't need 5-MeO-DMT.

But for the rest of us, there is 5-MeO-DMT to help speed up the way.

It's like you're saying that just because some radical guy climbed Everest on his hands and feet that nobody needs helicopters or airplanes. Average people need assistance. A handful of freaks do not.

[Garuda]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

By your logic no one could ever become enlightened since he would need a guru, and his guru would need a guru, and so on, to infinity. How did the very first guru become enlightened? Obviously he had no guru.

Obviously it's possible to become enlightened without a guru. And the most advanced people become enlightened on their own.

The Buddha was not following any guru.

 

@Leo Gura

In Hinduism the Guru lineage ends up at either Shiva or VIshnu its not Infinity. (well I guess you can call it infinity as they are God) 

They are  supreme. And the Vedas proclaim Shiva and Vishnu to be one and the same. Thats how it works. Im surprised you didn't know this??

For example Ramana Maharshi's Guru was from the Shiva side. And other enlightened beings come from Vishnu side.

And Buddha was from the Vishnu side. He had a Guru also which traces back all the way up. (but there are also Indications are Buddha was an incarnation of Vishnu him self...)

Thats one way to see if an Indian is legit enlightened as they should have a guru lineage that ends up to either Vishnu or Shiva.  (there is a female deity but I havent looked into that one much). 

Test it out for your self. Think of a Hindu that you think was enlightened and check their lineage and I assure that theory would work.

[Chi_]

@Garuda   

 

Scratch that....

 

Future enlightened beings linage will go straight to a toad in a desert in Mexico  

Edited June 28, 2019 by Chi_

[Chi_]

@Leo Gura  Either way, juicy insights Leo, thanks!  The deeper I go into this work, the more I realize how much I do not know

Edited June 28, 2019 by Chi_

[Truth Addict]

43 minutes ago, Garuda said:

@Leo Gura

In Hinduism the Guru lineage ends up at either Shiva or VIshnu its not Infinity. (well I guess you can call it infinity as they are God) 

They are  supreme. And the Vedas proclaim Shiva and Vishnu to be one and the same. Thats how it works. Im surprised you didn't know this??

For example Ramana Maharshi's Guru was from the Shiva side. And other enlightened beings come from Vishnu side.

And Buddha was from the Vishnu side. He had a Guru also which traces back all the way up. (but there are also Indications are Buddha was an incarnation of Vishnu him self...)

Thats one way to see if an Indian is legit enlightened as they should have a guru lineage that ends up to either Vishnu or Shiva.  (there is a female deity but I havent looked into that one much). 

Test it out for your self. Think of a Hindu that you think was enlightened and check their lineage and I assure that theory would work.

Muslim scholars have created a similar system regarding the sayings of Mohammed. They have classified his sayings into degrees of reliability, depending on the reliability of the sources.

But there's still a bug in that system. Because what defines the reliability of the ones who judge the sources? It all comes back to the scholars in the end. And why should anyone trust them? What is the level of their reliability? They said consensus, but they disagree a lot.

It's just groundless assumptions.

My point is, scholars cannot be trusted, and I'm not sure the lineage can be trusted either. Since I believe there are many disagreements on the lineages of enlightened gurus.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Garuda]

3 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Muslim scholars have created a similar system regarding the sayings of Mohammed. They have classified his sayings into degrees of reliability, depending on the reliability of the sources.

But there's still a bug in that system. Because what defines the reliability of the ones who judge the sources? It all comes back to the scholars in the end. And why should anyone trust them? What is the level of their reliability? They said consensus, but they disagree a lot.

It's just groundless assumptions.

My point is, I'm not sure the lineage can be trusted. Since I'm quite sure there are disagreements on the lineages of enlightened gurus.

@Truth Addict

In regards to The Mohammed one do they all lead up to him only?

I agree with your statements of Trust, as people have abused the Lineage and have even mixed and matched the lineages and claimed to have multiple Guru's. It simply doesnt work that way in Hinduism.

Yes there are faults in lineages and the lineage is not the only way to see if a Guru is legit. But I'm just saying all the enlightened Hindu Guru's I have observed have this lineage in place. (let me know if you have one that doesn't) 

And to throw a Spanner in the works it doesnt always end up as Scholars in the end. Ramana Maharashi's Guru is a Mountain. But its not just any mountain its Shiva himself. Texts about this mountains go back thousands of years, along with other saints experiences of the mountain. 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

@Garuda So by your logic Hindus are the only humans to discover God?

Lol

All of those lineages are imaginary. You don't need a lineage to discover God because you are God! All lineages start and end with YOU.