Receding gum on a vegan diet.

[Scholar]

So I am curious if anyone here has encountered this problem. I heard ex vegans talk about this frequently, and I am experiencing it currently too. Have been vegan for a few years.

 

Anyone here know how to fix this, assuming it is due to a deficiency in my diet?

[outlandish]

Do you floss every day?

[montecristo]

Veganism is utterly deluded and unnatural, they always have health problems and are always searching for the next miracle cure, meanwhile their diets contain virtually no nutrition. uhhhh

[Dimi]

First of al veganism is a lifestyle, not only a diet, but a vegan diet, if done properly, meaning not eating only things that have the label "vegan" on it but by having most of what you eat coming from multiple sources, know what your body needs and know what the best source is to get it from and of course having a body that takes in/digest what you need/eat than you are fine and even less likely to have any deficiency or become less healthy.

There are more risks of deficiencies in most people diets (eating animal products in general) than there are on a PROPER plant based diet.

There are tons and tons of research done that are not financed by corporations but by individuals which sole purpose is to make scientific researches and very specific tests so that you can have a specific conclusion eliminating other factors of doubt. You can have a look at Dr Greger or Dr Barnard.

https://www.pcrm.org/

https://nutritionfacts.org/

This is research done properly.

 

Now @Scholar, do you brush (and floss like outlandish asked) ?

If yes, can you tell us more on what you mostly eat and drink?

 

Here are some tips to help increase dental health in general:

- Coenzyme Q10 promotes gum healing and cell growth

- Vitamin C with Bioflavonoids promotes healing, especially of bleeding gums

- alcium and Magnesium help prevent bone loss around the gums

- Vitamins A and E are needed for healing gum tissue

- Aloe Vera Gel eases inflamed gums and soothes the tissues when applied directly to the affected area

- Chamomile Tea is soothing to gum tissues

- Green Tea is helpful in decay prevention and decreases plaque

- Echinacea keeps inflammation down and enhances immune function

 

[montecristo]

if youre not strict or religious that means you arent a vegan then right? genuine question.

 Any genuine honest inquiry into the matter will reveal that veganism isnt viable or healthy, it is confirmation bias up the wazoo.

There is no one plant or combination of plants that contains all the nutrients essential for human wellbeing and certainly not in adequate amounts.

Kill an animal and you have absolutely every micro/macronutrient you will ever need to survive generationally. 

I imagine consciousness of this fact is not popular among a spiritual crowd but I urge people to look at this without bias so as to not compromise their's and their children's health based on a delusional web of beliefs.

 

[Max_V]

@Shiva  That's exactly how veganism should be, no labels. It's sad it degraded into being a strong hold ideology to most people.

I'm personally not fully plant-based anymore. It was not serving me. My body needed some animal products in order to feel fully thriving. I still eat mostly plant based, just added honey, fish, and eggs. 

[Dimi]

41 minutes ago, montecristo said:

if youre not strict or religious that means you arent a vegan then right? genuine question.

 Any genuine honest inquiry into the matter will reveal that veganism isnt viable or healthy, it is confirmation bias up the wazoo.

There is no one plant or combination of plants that contains all the nutrients essential for human wellbeing and certainly not in adequate amounts.

Kill an animal and you have absolutely every micro/macronutrient you will ever need to survive generationally. 

I imagine consciousness of this fact is not popular among a spiritual crowd but I urge people to look at this without bias so as to not compromise their's and their children's health based on a delusional web of beliefs.

 

I'm stunned on how i see certain comments without ANY substance to it and this regarding health.

Here are some facts for you to read IF you are interested in pure studies done for the sake of science, not funded by any industry selling you the product in the first place:

- https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0209086

- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4245565/

- https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/plant-based-diets/
- https://www.pcrm.org/health-topics/gut-bacteria

- https://nutritionfacts.org/video/harvards-meat-and-mortality-studies/

You should check up on https://www.pcrm.org/ and https://nutritionfacts.org/  if you want some real specific studies and facts. They always go over specific studies to have very detailed and specific results, leaving no room for "yeah but what if this or that" and so on...

Don't do it for me, I won't benefit from it, my health is awesome, do it for yourself, it's the fuel you put in your body, if you want to just go by in live than fine do as you wish, if you want optimal health than you should research more.

Everyone has a choice whether it's a conscious one or not you are taking actions every single day, this has consequences whether you want it or not  

I respect and accept everyone's choice, let that be clear but I can't let certain things being said about health to people asking for help which makes no stand at all. What you do with it, that's on you

Warm regards!

 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Dimi thank you for the links I saved them 

[Emerald]

On 6/24/2019 at 7:14 PM, Scholar said:

So I am curious if anyone here has encountered this problem. I heard ex vegans talk about this frequently, and I am experiencing it currently too. Have been vegan for a few years.

 

Anyone here know how to fix this, assuming it is due to a deficiency in my diet?

I've been back and forth between Vegan and Vegetarian for over 3 years now, with most of that time spent Vegan. And I've never had the issue of receding gums.

You can get everything you need from a Vegan diet except for b-12. So, be sure to take a b-12 supplement.

Also, I recommend using the site Cronometer, because you can monitor your macronutrients (carbs, proteins, fats).

You can also monitor your essential vitmains, minerals, and amino acids.

That way, you know that you're meeting your needs. And you can absolutely meet 100% of your needs on a Vegan diet as long as you take a b-12 supplement. I know because I monitor.

The most difficult need to meet, by far, is Potassium. And that's true for Vegans and Omnivores alike. You'd have to eat line 9 bananas a day to get all the potassium you need or 3 potatoes. And the supplements have 3% of the daily value of potassium max, as they're not allowed to have any more potassium than that. So, sweet potatoes and regular potatoes are your best friends for your potassium needs. Otherwise... 9 bananas.

Calcium is difficult for Vegans, so be sure to find natural Calcium sources like cruciferous vegetables or Spirulina or use supplements or fortified plant milks. 

Vitamin D is also difficult for both Vegans and non-Vegans alike. You can get it naturally through certain mushrooms or through exposure to sunlight. But I take a supplement for this as well.

Otherwise, everything else is pretty easy to get, including protein. Just, be sure to get a minimum of .36 grams of protein for pound of body weight. So, for me, I need around 40 grams of protein per day but I aim for around 60 grams. So, if you're a man, you might need a bit more like 50-55 grams. So, you may want to shoot for around 75 grams of protein.

I recommend lentils, split peas, and other legumes. They have a lot of protein in them as well as a complete amino acid profile. 

 

 

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, montecristo said:

if youre not strict or religious that means you arent a vegan then right? genuine question.

 Any genuine honest inquiry into the matter will reveal that veganism isnt viable or healthy, it is confirmation bias up the wazoo.

There is no one plant or combination of plants that contains all the nutrients essential for human wellbeing and certainly not in adequate amounts.

Kill an animal and you have absolutely every micro/macronutrient you will ever need to survive generationally. 

I imagine consciousness of this fact is not popular among a spiritual crowd but I urge people to look at this without bias so as to not compromise their's and their children's health based on a delusional web of beliefs.

 

Try some science for a change.

You can get everything you need from a plant-based diet, except for b-12. And even the major health organizations agree that all nutrient needs can be met on a Vegan diet at any stage in life.

If you don't believe me, you can use the site Cronometer which is a site for monitoring whether or not you've met your macronutrient and micronutrient needs. And it's not a site designed for Vegans. It's just a general nutrition site. So, it monitors carbs, proteins, and fats as well as amino acids, vitamins, and minerals. 

I monitor my diet through that site, and I can pretty easily meet all my needs as a Vegan. Lentils, peas, and beans have lots of protein and complete amino acid profiles.

Also, if you tried to meet all your caloric needs through killing a single animal, then your diet would be incredibly imbalanced... getting way too much of some things and way too little of others.

I just typed in the profile for steak, if you got 1,973 calories met by eating just that.

Macronutrients-wise, you get too much protein (576% of what you need) and fat (146% of what you need). And micronutrients wise, you get too much saturated fat and too much trans fat (which is really bad for you). You also get too much Zinc (700% of what you need) and too much Niacin (698% of what you need). 

In terms of deficiencies macronutrients-wise, you get 0% of the carbs you need and 0% of the fiber you need (constipation- ouch!). 

In terms of micronutrient deficiencies, I'll list them below...

Omega-3 - 22% "of the needed daily value"

Omega-6 - 27% ""

Vitamin B1 - 87% ""

Folate - 15% ""

Vitamin A - 7% ""

Vitamin C - 0% "" (Scurvy ahoy!)

Vitamin D - 2% ""

Vitamin E - 23% ""

Vitamin K - 26% ""

Calcium - 20% ""

Copper - 81% ""

Magnesium - 60% ""

Sodium - 55% ""

This equals out to meeting only 68% of your nutrient needs. 

And when I eat a Vegan diet that meets my caloric needs it's quite easy for me to hit all the targets without going over, and I only take two supplements.

So, you may want to consider that all the things you think you know about diet are incorrect.

Edit: You're also way over on Amino Acids, getting 1300%+ of your daily recommended needs for all 11 essential Amino Acids, except for Cystine which is over by 693%.

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by Emerald

[Dimi]

@Emerald Great content and well said!

Edited June 29, 2019 by Dimi

[Emerald]

21 minutes ago, Dimi said:

@Emerald Great content and well said!

Thanks!

 

[Space]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

You can get everything you need from a Vegan diet except for b-12. So, be sure to take a b-12 supplement.

I don't think it's that simple, and I'm really not convinced that this is true to be honest. My current understanding is that some people from various parts of the world are just incapable of being fully healthy on a vegan diet, EVEN IF the majority of the essential nutrients can be found in plants. There are significant differences in peoples bodies and there ability to process certain foods. Just because major health organizations say the diet provides all the necessary nutrients, does not mean that everyone can just start eating plant based and do fine. Some people DO thrive on a vegan diet, that is undeniable. But other's don't. And it's not just down to the fact that they weren't eating all the nutrients. It's not all about getting your micronutrients. If it only it were that simple.

[Natasha]

@Space I agree. I tried to go all vegan once, found out I still had to supplement with some animal protein to feel well. 

[Emerald]

16 minutes ago, Space said:

I don't think it's that simple, and I'm really not convinced that this is true to be honest. My current understanding is that some people from various parts of the world are just incapable of being fully healthy on a vegan diet, EVEN IF the majority of the essential nutrients can be found in plants. There are significant differences in peoples bodies and there ability to process certain foods. Just because major health organizations say the diet provides all the necessary nutrients, does not mean that everyone can just start eating plant based and do fine. Some people DO thrive on a vegan diet, that is undeniable. But other's don't. And it's not just down to the fact that they weren't eating all the nutrients. It's not all about getting your micronutrients. If it only it were that simple.

You're not really saying anything concrete here. You're saying it's not down to the fact that we're eating all the nutrients. But if it's not, then what does it come down to, if not nutrient consumption? Isn't that the reason why we eat?

We have macro-nutrient needs... carbs, proteins, and fats. We also have micro-nutrient needs like the essential vitamins, minerals, fats, and amino acids. We can also parse that down to phyto-nutrients and anti-oxidents, which are found in plants exclusively in phytp-nutrients and mostly in plants in the case of anti-oxidents.  

So, if all of these factors are covered on a Vegan diet, then what is this mystery ingredient (or ingredients) that you're talking about? 

Now, you could say that some people have issues processing nutrients in general. But I don't see how that would be different if they were eating a Vegan diet versus an Omnivorous diet, as even an Omnivorous diet also includes plants. 

Now, there is the case of the Inuit population that has had to make due with eating only meat because of the cold weather. So, I might be willing to buy it, if the population comes from that region because there is thousands of years of evolution behind that.

That said, the Inuit population that still lives in that area (as late as 1991) tend not to live very long compared to people living in other places, and perhaps limited diet may have something to do with that. Their average life expectancy was about 10 years earlier than Canadians up until about 30 years ago. But this has changed a lot since then, perhaps because there is more access to a variety of foods as opposed to just the animals they have there to hunt. And there is near parity of life expectancy now.

So, can you be more specific with your claim?

 

[montecristo]

 

 

 

 

 

4

On 6/30/2019 at 5:55 AM, Emerald said:

You're not really saying anything concrete here. You're saying it's not down to the fact that we're eating all the nutrients. But if it's not, then what does it come down to, if not nutrient consumption? Isn't that the reason why we eat?

We have macro-nutrient needs... carbs, proteins, and fats. We also have micro-nutrient needs like the essential vitamins, minerals, fats, and amino acids. We can also parse that down to phyto-nutrients and anti-oxidents, which are found in plants exclusively in phytp-nutrients and mostly in plants in the case of anti-oxidents.  

So, if all of these factors are covered on a Vegan diet, then what is this mystery ingredient (or ingredients) that you're talking about? 

 

@Emerald This is the type of overly simplistic materialist thinking that leads to delusion. Biology is an unfathomably complex domain but we have learned a few things.

The problem with veganism is double sided, it comes down to not getting all the nutrients as well as how inflammatory many plant foods can be due to their natural inborn plant defenses, most plant foods we see today required millenia of domestication to be viable food stuffs. Anti-oxidants found in plants are a joke compared to the powerful upregulation of glutathione and endogenous antioxidant capacity illicited by exercise and fasting. 

Plant chemicals are triggers to spur an endogenous process not nutrients as one might think. you can think of plants as medicine and animals as food.

I encourage you all to think critically here and not recycle the same confirmation biased appeals to authority, nitty gritty mechanistic studies etc.

there is an ag lobby and guess what kinds of foods have the highest margins? Plant foods, do you have any idea what the profit margins are on wheat for example? astronomical.

Strictly from a human health standpoint the rubber meets the road in terms of conversions of nutrients from plant precursors into the in-vivo active forms of the nutrients.

there are certain gene polymorphisms present in over 50% of the population that make it absolutely impossible to convert beta-carotene into retinol among many others. Lack of retinol is a likely explanation for those receding gums.

Yes the plant foods according to chronometer contain various nutrients (albeit bound by anti-nutrients, oxalates lectins etc) but there are many absolutely ESSENTIAL nutrients they simply do not contain or in necessary abundance for optimal health/childhood development.

ALL animals are healthiest consuming the diet they evolved to consume, something should tell you that the vegan diet is not that due to the fact you NEED to supplement b12 without which you will get irreversible brain damage within several years not to mention the plethora of other critical nutrients not obtained through veganism. How could it possibly be safe for all stages of the life cycle when there is no b12? 

Nose to tail eating of naturally raised animals avails a human being of absolutely every single micro/macronutrient necessary to survive generationally.

In my opinion raising a child vegan is tantamount to child abuse.

Plants contain no:

vitamin D

B12

vitamin A in the form of retinol

EPA or DHA, chia seeds contain linolenic acid which can be converted at a rate of less than 5% if youre lucky

vitamin K2

essential amino acids in optimal ratios (vegans like to cite studies showing higher levels of protein in the blood of vegans compared to omnivores, this is becasue they are not usable within the cell when not in balanced ratios, so they float around in the blood stream activating autoimmune reactions.

For example if you vegans would simply consume some shellfish on a weekly basis you would have all of these deficiencies met and they are less sentient than the housefly you likely killed within the last month.

I trust the laboratory that is nature and my direct experience over a select few myopic confirmation biased vegan doctors/organizations, sorry.

[montecristo]

On 6/30/2019 at 3:35 AM, Emerald said:

Try some science for a change.

You can get everything you need from a plant-based diet, except for b-12. And even the major health organizations agree that all nutrient needs can be met on a Vegan diet at any stage in life.

If you don't believe me, you can use the site Cronometer which is a site for monitoring whether or not you've met your macronutrient and micronutrient needs. And it's not a site designed for Vegans. It's just a general nutrition site. So, it monitors carbs, proteins, and fats as well as amino acids, vitamins, and minerals. 

I monitor my diet through that site, and I can pretty easily meet all my needs as a Vegan. Lentils, peas, and beans have lots of protein and complete amino acid profiles.

Also, if you tried to meet all your caloric needs through killing a single animal, then your diet would be incredibly imbalanced... getting way too much of some things and way too little of others.

I just typed in the profile for steak, if you got 1,973 calories met by eating just that.

Macronutrients-wise, you get too much protein (576% of what you need) and fat (146% of what you need). And micronutrients wise, you get too much saturated fat and too much trans fat (which is really bad for you). You also get too much Zinc (700% of what you need) and too much Niacin (698% of what you need). 

In terms of deficiencies macronutrients-wise, you get 0% of the carbs you need and 0% of the fiber you need (constipation- ouch!). 

In terms of micronutrient deficiencies, I'll list them below...

Omega-3 - 22% "of the needed daily value"

Omega-6 - 27% ""

Vitamin B1 - 87% ""

Folate - 15% ""

Vitamin A - 7% ""

Vitamin C - 0% "" (Scurvy ahoy!)

Vitamin D - 2% ""

Vitamin E - 23% ""

Vitamin K - 26% ""

Calcium - 20% ""

Copper - 81% ""

Magnesium - 60% ""

Sodium - 55% ""

This equals out to meeting only 68% of your nutrient needs. 

And when I eat a Vegan diet that meets my caloric needs it's quite easy for me to hit all the targets without going over, and I only take two supplements.

So, you may want to consider that all the things you think you know about diet are incorrect.

Edit: You're also way over on Amino Acids, getting 1300%+ of your daily recommended needs for all 11 essential Amino Acids, except for Cystine which is over by 693%.

 

your example covers muscle meat alone which isnt representative, it's not even the majority of what you would consume when dealing with the whole animal.

I also question the validity of those daily value percentages.

Carbs and fiber are not essential to the human organism at all. Glucose requirements are readily met via gluconeogenic pathways. if you are worried about fiber animal foods contain fermentable fiber in the form of collagen.

in many instances humans were able to consistently find starchy tubers as well as some fruit in certain latitudes that supplied a decent amount of potassium but these were supplemental sources of calories and not the crux of the diet.

the point is a "well-balanced" vegan diet (whatever that means) isn't at all attainable in an evolutionary context, full stop.

 

[Max_V]

On 29-6-2019 at 8:24 PM, Shiva said:

Yeah, I mean why not? Everybody is different and has different nutritional requirements. 

Personally, I don't buy eggs myself, but if someone makes a cake I'm certainly not gonna refuse just because it contains some milk and eggs.

For me there's also a large social component to it. I really enjoy meeting friends and have dinner at restaurants. 

What did your fully vegan diet look like before? And what made you feel you needed change?

I was eating whole foods plant based before. About 60% carbs 20% fats and 20% protein. Putting my meals into Cronometer every day to track my nutrients, always 200+ calories above my maintaince level, etc. 

On paper, I should have been thriving and feeling amazing acording to vegan science, but I felt really weak in my body and depressed. What made me switch was the fragileness of my body and how I couldn't really do any type of movement with explosiveness anymore. I missed that fire in my body and sweat leaking off my skin. That's what I noticed came back when I started including some animal products again. I could finally be explosive and feel fire in me again.

During that time I was already suicidal, not being able to do one of the only things that brought me happiness in life anymore -- moving my body, made it so I had to do something, otherwise I might not have been here anymore. 

[Michael569]

You may simply have a bacterial infection in your gums. Do they bleed when you brush or floss?  It is also possible the dental hygiene is either insufficient or excessive. 

[integral]

On 6/27/2019 at 0:21 PM, Dimi said:

There are tons and tons of research done that are not financed by corporations but by individuals which sole purpose is to make scientific researches and very specific tests so that you can have a specific conclusion eliminating other factors of doubt. You can have a look at Dr Greger or Dr Barnard.

 

Studied this subject extensively. This is the result. 

Mechanics of weight gain/loss that our ancestors understood for 100 million years because it was key to there survival: 

1) High Protein, Low Fat, Low Carb: Rapid weight loss, body is starved of fat, so it pulls from fat storage (Diet seen by pro bodybuilders to loss weight, eat nothing but lean protein, fatal long term.) 

2) Low Protein, Low Fat, High Carb: Weight loss, body is starved of fat, so it pulls from fat storage.  (Diets: The starch solution, Raw vegan diets)

3) High Protein, High Fat, Low Carb: Sustains weight, no change. (Diets: Carnivore, Keto) 

4) Low Protein, High Fat, High Carb: Rapid weight gain, body is given everything it needs to store fat. (Ideal for bulking for winter)

5) High Protein, Low Fat, High Carb: Weight loss, body is starved of fat, so it pulls from fat storage. (Very difficult to achieve diet, not seen often) 

6) Low Protien, High Fat, Low Carb: Results vary depending on how fast the body adapts, usually results in weight loss (Diets: extreme keto) 

---

Both 1 and 2 starve the body of fat in different ways, the critical difference is number 2 is extremely taxing on the body high stress. Number 1 is actually fatal long term body fat percentage reaches 0 resulting in death, this is known as rabbit starvation. 

Short term number 2 can have amazing results especially if coming from the standard "what ever i see i eat" diet. But long term the results are clear, premature aging. Just look at Dr Barnard patients and subordinates that have been on the journey for 10 years... they look terrible. Aged poorly. The problem is on the diet they cant eat fat because number 4 happens and they rapidly gain weight...

We haven't began covering how number 2 (The starch solution diet) is Low omega 3 fats/high sugar that hamers the brain. Watching Dr Barnard talks hes not wrong about everything there is plenty of truth to his teaching, like everything else which serves to sugar coat the false message.

The interesting part: Number 2 and Number 3 both cure everything. Practitioners in both camps have great success with there patients. But there is a critical difference, number 2 is not sustainable long term. This is the catch no one sees that endorse The starch solution diet. This is unhealthy veganism. 

When looking deeper, number 3 Keto/Carnivore have the highest cancer cure rates. Look into doctors/practitioners that employ this diet for cancer treatment, compare with other diet plans... look at the results and you will find the truth. 

Side note: Chemotherapy, the only reason this works is because the patients receiving the poison are so sick they stop eating, start fasting and because they stopped eating the things that caused the cancer there body heals itself. Chemo does not cure cancer its the fasting and diet changes that gives there body time to heal. The only thing the chemo ensures is that someone is going to make a profit off of the patient and the patient is going to spend the next 20 years devastated as they watch their body rapidly deteriorate from the delayed effects of the highly toxic chemo "treatment".