Why does suffering exist

[Dylan Page]

Simple question. Why does it exist. Don't say that suffering and non-suffering are a duality, that is just handwaving. IF GOD IS ALL LOVING, SUFFERING SHOULD NOT EXIST, EVEN IF ITS AN ILLUSION, CONSTRUCT, OR DUALITY. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Dylan Page

[Preetom]

@Dylan Page

Suffering exists because you say/feel suffering exists.

Discover the truth of the one who suffers and see what happens to suffering.

[Dylan Page]

@Preetom not really.. it exists whether I like it or not. If it were up to me, I’d get rid of it. Or at least reduce the shit out of it.

[Gili Trawangan]

This is EXACTLY what the Buddha taught, word for word. Read about the Four Noble Truths, it's all there. Why there is suffering and the way to end it once and for all.

[Sempiternity]

God (you are God) created suffering to experience suffering. It's not bad, it just is, to be experienced. God created torture so it can experience torture. You (the Ego) is a video game character being played first-person by God (the real You). That video game character will get hurt, get beat down and will die. Then you (God) will load a new character and play some more.  The key is to awaken to who you are (God) know that you are experiencing a video game character and enjoy the ride, suffering and all. 

*hint. Once you awaken to who you are (God), there won't be any more suffering. No self, no suffering. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Jed Vassallo

[Truth Addict]

@Dylan Page

Simply because you ask why.

"Why?" usually implies resistance, and resistance causes suffering.

[Preetom]

2 hours ago, Dylan Page said:

@Preetom not really.. it exists whether I like it or not. If it were up to me, I’d get rid of it. Or at least reduce the shit out of it.

It doesn't matter whether you like it or not. The fact remains that you are creating suffering yourself, knowingly or unknowingly.

Even after knowing this, you will still have cravings, dissatisfaction, desires etc internal reactions. Where are they coming from? They are all coming from within you. It is not factually possible to satiate any desire with an object and yet you'll have desires which are bound to be unfulfilled and leave you dissatisfied.

So unless you solve that maze within you, suffering will feel like a very real thing. And your insistence and doubling down on it makes it more real.
BTW have you noticed when one is happy, nobody ever asks why am I so happy? or whats the point of all this happiness? or enough! I have too much happiness already!

hmm..something smells fishy here...

Edited June 24, 2019 by Preetom

[Dylan Page]

@Preetom Happiness needs no reason. It is it’s own reason, and sadness is also reasonless, but it’s by definition terrible and that which NEVER justifies itself. If you can get rid of suffering, you always will. And in the case of emotion, if it “seems” real, or “feels” real, it’s is real, right?

[Preetom]

31 minutes ago, Dylan Page said:

@Preetom Happiness needs no reason. It is it’s own reason, and sadness is also reasonless, but it’s by definition terrible and that which NEVER justifies itself. 

But notice another thing here. There is no rigid hard and fast rule about what makes one happy or sad. A thing which gives you happiness maybe act as a source of sadness for others. 

For example, being a couch potato and watching TV maybe happiness for one. But for a physically active person, that would bring sadness and make him/her depressed. They would voluntarily inflict discomfort over their bodies to get some sort of happiness/high.

A hard math problem can make one cry while make another intellectually satisfied. so on and so forth.

if God banned math problems, physical discomfort etc that would take away a source of happiness for many people. So the thing in itself is not the issue here, one's internal reaction towards it is the issue.

31 minutes ago, Dylan Page said:

If you can get rid of suffering, you always will. And in the case of emotion, if it “seems” real, or “feels” real, it’s is real, right?

Yeah the feelings and emotions are real when they are happening. But not in the sense you think. That sense of reality comes from YOU, not from things. Happiness/sadness, events etc feel real in real time because YOU are present there.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Preetom

[Dylan Page]

@Preetom yes I understand how relativity works. And yes I understand that happiness/sadness comes from me. That still doesn’t justify their existence. (Happiness doesn’t need justification, sadness does) I’m using happiness and sadness as metaphors for positive and negative emotions in general.

[Enlightenment]

@Dylan Page Because organisms that did not experience suffering has died a long time ago. Suffering is extremely important for survival.

[Dylan Page]

Why is reality set up that way? @Enlightenment @possibilities

[tedens]

You ask the same question over and over again.

[Preetom]

20 minutes ago, Dylan Page said:

@Preetom yes I understand how relativity works. And yes I understand that happiness/sadness comes from me. That still doesn’t justify their existence. (Happiness doesn’t need justification, sadness does) I’m using happiness and sadness as metaphors for positive and negative emotions in general.

Why happiness doesn't need justification but sadness does?

If you are willing to get your hands dirty in the intellectual realm, then why cherry picking some facets and conveniently leaving out other parts?

See, this is the main drawback of modern science, rationality, logic etc. The problem is not that they are so intellectual; the problem is they are not rigorously intellectual enough. If they were, then rationality would eat it's own tail and all these dilemma would be dissolved.

Do you see that there is a far deeper 'system' controlling you and the intellect has nowhere reach for this system? This system completely overrules everything about you, and yet you feel you are intellectually in total control.

[Dylan Page]

Happiness doesn’t need justification from my point of view. Sadness, however, does, or else the sadness is purposeless and therefore fundamentally a waste of time and an unjustified horrible state of existence with no reparation. From no point of view, happiness and sadness are irrelevant and neither of them need justification. @Preetom

Also, if there is a possibility to avoid pain, I will ALWAYS avoid the pain. If instead of working to get money (assuming the work is bad) I could just have the money, I would just have the money. We only experience voluntary suffering for greater well-being.

[Truth Addict]

35 minutes ago, Dylan Page said:

Why is reality set up that way? @Enlightenment @possibilities

Reality is not set up that way. Reality is that way. There's a huge difference between the two.

There can only be suffering when you go against reality.

There is no such thing as happiness. The thing that you call happiness and strive for is just peace, and more specifically, peace of mind.

Why do you suffer? Because you want to suffer.

You have unconsciously set up conditions for happiness, something like: I will only be happy if blah blah blah...

Lose the conditions if you want happiness. Keep them if you still want suffering.

This rant against God is nothing but a rant against yourself. And it is the reason behind the majority of your suffering.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Scholar]

29 minutes ago, Dylan Page said:

Happiness doesn’t need justification from my point of view. Sadness, however, does, or else the sadness is purposeless and therefore fundamentally a waste of time and an unjustified horrible state of existence with no reparation. From no point of view, happiness and sadness are irrelevant and neither of them need justification. @Preetom

Also, if there is a possibility to avoid pain, I will ALWAYS avoid the pain. If instead of working to get money (assuming the work is bad) I could just have the money, I would just have the money. We only experience voluntary suffering for greater well-being.

You are human, so of course you do not want to suffer. But reality isn't human, reality is everything. It has no desire, because to desire would be to be limited.

There is no justification. The desire to justify is human. Reality doesn't even need a cause to create all of existence, it does so with no effort whatsoever, with no need to justify it. Suffering exist because it must exist, it is one of the infinite fascets of existence.

 

You not wanting to suffer must exist, and suffering must also exist. What you are doing is like asking why the color red exist.

If terribleness did not exist, how could you possibly say it would be terrible to let terribleness exist?

Edited June 24, 2019 by Scholar

[Dylan Page]

Yes I agree with you, but apparently, reality is all loving, it’s infinite love. I don’t see why something that is all loving would also include suffering. I really don’t care how it’s made, whether it be through myself, or an illusion, or whatever. The point is, it exists. This causes me to believe that it isn’t all loving. @Scholar

Edited June 24, 2019 by Dylan Page

[Dylan Page]

You’re just not answering the question @Truth Addict

also, I’m not ranting against anything, this isn’t some retarded childish tirade. I’m just asking a question. 

[Scholar]

7 minutes ago, Dylan Page said:

Yes I agree with you, but apparently, reality is all loving, it’s infinite love. I don’t see why something that is all loving would also include suffering. I really don’t care how it’s made, whether it be through myself, or an illusion, or whatever. The point is, it exists. This causes me to believe that it isn’t all loving. @Scholar

You do not comprehend Agape. It is not loving in your humanistic sense, where you love that which you consider to be good and not that which you consider to be bad.

Love is the existence of the fascets, the beingness of all that exists. Infinite Love is equivalent to Infinite existence. So if suffering did not exist, it could not possibly be Infinite Love, because it would lack the existence of suffering! Yet all is loved, even suffering itself. Reality has no preferences, that is what makes it all loving. It loves suffering as much as anything else in existence.

It is not merely that all is loved. It is that the beingness of all is Love itself

Edited June 24, 2019 by Scholar