Can Leo do anything demonstrable "superhuman" and going foreward for actualize.org

[FrankTheTank]

Let me start by saying that I have been watching Leos videos for year and I think he is an honest seeker and a great communicator.
Also I am arguing from good faith - I dont intend to offend anyone.

Anyway... in the latest video Leo said that in the highly altered states of consciousness under DPT he thought that he might be able to act in ways - normally considerd - "supernatural", like healing the body or maybe even altering it.
At one point he imagined changin his hand to a tentakle (if I remember correctly) he dismissed that idea because it was not the natural form of his human body to form a tentakle instead of a hand.

Ok fair enough, but shouldnt it be possible to do something (anything considered "unnormal") - like shaving the hair on his arm and let them regrow instantly. Or cutting his fingernails and (somewhat more extrem) doing a small but bleeding cut on the finger and let the would heal instantly, or something in that ballpark - you get my point.

Alternatively do any of the insights transfer to some sort of practical/technologically useful and testable knowledge that a human could not have under normal circumstances.

Anything that could give any objective credence that all the insights arent just delusions.

 I  think (and certainly I am not the only one) that he should apply more scepticism to his own insights.

 

Leo talked about how vivid these experiences are and also having his insights confimed by other enlightend masters, thats all well and good, but is that really good evidence?
Surely many people here can talk in sufficently convincing ways about spiritual experiences even if they did not have had them and thats possible because there are many high quality lectures and teachings and spiritual maps out there so that evereyone interested knows what a teacher "needs" to hear to be convinced of ones spiritual process.

Also regarding the insights that can be achieved (either by meditation or psycheldelics): for me it does not come as a surprise that the mind brings up insights about things that one has heard/read in spiritual teachings, like oneness or nothingness or potential<-->form etc.

It would be plausible that leo and other seekers form their mental representation of a spiritual landscape (by reading and listening to masters) in their minds and then when we take psychedelics the "wild experiences" get interpreted in accord to the already formed spiritual map - a sort of confirmation bias that we all are susceptible to.

Imho for actualized.org going forward it would be important to

a) for Leo and the community to try to come up with something, anything, that could verify/give credence to the claimed insights

b) I also thought it would be intersting and productive and also healthy for leo to not only give talks but instead to also from time to time bring guests online to have a constructive debate/critique with them regarding his metaphysics or insights or how one could verify claims. 

Otherwise I see the real danger that Leo and we as a spiritual community increasingly build a higher and higher castle in the sky without any grounding in reality whatsoever.

 

All the best.

--Frank

 

 

 

[cetus]

@FrankTheTank You would not exist if it were'nt for Leo bringing you here. (- Your first post)

[Truth Addict]

Leo said that it's impossible for God not to be God.

But that's not true. Because God isn't God.

In other words, a human being is and isn't God. So, that means that we cannot break our limits. We can only play by the rules of God.

The rules of this realm, at least right now, do not allow imagination to heal directly. But rather through creating technologies and methods to heal.

That does not mean that rules are rigid, nor that rules cannot be broken. That just means that the ego has zero control over God.

1 hour ago, FrankTheTank said:

a) for Leo and the community to try to come up with something, anything, that could verify/give credence to the claimed insights

b) I also thought it would be intersting and productive and also healthy for leo to not only give talks but instead to also from time to time bring guests online to have a constructive debate/critique with them regarding his metaphysics or insights or how one could verify claims.

a) Only you can verify anything at all.

b) Leo is open to criticism on here, I have personally had made some critiques of his ways, and he almost never took it personally.

[nowimhere]

Sounds like you want someone to worship. Leo consistently warns AGAINST that. 

He also consistently tells you to verify everything for yourself.

It sounds like you just want more silver spoons and silver platters. 

Just go out there and do the work already. 

[Sempiternity]

He said in the video that at that level of oneness with God to be able to alter the 'rules' of reality, other people would no longer be other people and you would no longer be 'human'. It would not register to the dualistic world. So no, you can't get proof. 

And welcome, Frank. Happy to have you join in. 

[Dimi]

11 hours ago, FrankTheTank said:

Anything that could give any objective credence that all the insights arent just delusions.

There is never an "objective" statement or thought if it comes from a human standpoint

You wanting/asking for "proof" is just a statement that you truly don't believe in it, so by definition if you don't believe it 200% how could it manifest ever in your life? Him proving anything doesn't prove anything it will be just something to add in your experience that is not in your experience, what good would it be to you? Just to believe it and give your all to try it? If yes, what do you have to loose to try it without him or anyone proving anything to you first?

[StarStruck]

Isn’t it super natural you are here?

[FrankTheTank]

@Dimi

Objective in this sense would be anything that is not just claimed by (for or discussion here) Leo but somehow demostrated to an external observer i.e. me and you. Is ist possible to fake a "video proof"? sure but it requires malicious intent instead of just confirmation bias and also much effort and experise. So for that matters that would be at least a serious start in the right direction.

I havend had the necessary experiences myself to make me very convinced one way or the other so SHOWING some good evidence would move my convictions a good deal in the "right" direction.

And: do you really think only the things that you BELIEVE in do manifest in ones life? really? I am convinced the world is full of happenings that people did not believe in at all. Is it really your metaphysical believe that the causality in the universe is governed by (even if very serious) wishful thinking?
I find it hard to believe that people inner model of the world really works that way...

@StarStruck

Questions like "isnt it super natural you are here?" how is this a serious, well intended reply to what I wrote, I mean seriously?

@nowimhere

I dont want somebody to worship. I dont worship Einstein for his theory of relativity but he was the on who gave convincing and scientifically testable evidence to the world that spacetime behaves in a ways that "noone" expected.

Time and resources are limited in everyones life. In my life I have devoted some serious hours to meditation, silent retreats and related practices and while I had interesting and experiences and insights about the working of my mind its nothing close to the insights Leo talks about. Maybe I would need to put much more serious effort into it but as my sparetime and lifetime (as everyone elses) is a zerosum game I would have to make sacrifices to other activities that are also important to me.
Therefore it would be more than helpful and motivating - and certainly not only for me - to be very confident that we are not just chasing a mirage.

[Truth Addict]

@FrankTheTank

We have gone beyond the limits of science. Science's evidence is based on consensus. Without consensus, scientists are just bullshitting us.

I think that is exactly what you think Leo is doing.

But no, of course you shouldn't take his word for granted.

Science is all about third-person phenomenon, while Leo is all about first person phenomenon (which scientists usually dismiss).

Science is great, and I love it. But it's not the truth.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Truth Addict

[MezzoAria]

@Truth Addict I must disagree that the rules of this reality cannot be broken and we must play by it.

What do you, and others, have to say about some magicians that we see that have literally broken every rule of this "physical" reality?

I believe that they have some higher insights than most if not all of us on this forum.

They have tapped into the true nature of reality, and somehow, have become Gods on earth. Take for instance the video below.

Yif Magic生麵團變法式麵包 [官方HD] French Breakfast

It would be good if @Leo Gura could one day delve into the topic. I would love to hear his views on this.

[Truth Addict]

@MezzoAria

I never said the rules are fixed.

The video you posted is merely optical illusions, not magic.

[MezzoAria]

 

@Truth Addict That's your opinion, which is not necessarily the truth.

[Sempiternity]

Yeah...those are slight of hand. Like card tricks, it is not real magic. Can't believe anyone would think it is real magic. But, people believe the world is flat, so anything is possible. ALL of everything is illusion in the sense that life is a dream. See Leo's video on Life is a Dream. So in that sense any trick is an illusion, as is literally everything, all of Reality. 

[Harikrishnan]

Leo should grow his hair back in next yt video. ?

[Anton_Pierre]

@FrankTheTank Just because you can do something, does that make it genuine and sincere?

[luckieluuke]

@FrankTheTank I agree at some level. Namely I feel that Leos teaching/view relies heavily on extremely deep psychedelic experiences. He doesn´t seem to question these experiences at all and take them for the truth without hesitation. Maybe because it sounds wild and he gets more followers and his ego likes that. Or maybe they are true, baybe psychedelics are portal into absolute truth or they are portals into a fantasy of what aboslute truth is. I don´t know.
I mean just the fact that he discard every other spiritual teachers and only has himself as a teacher (psychedelics) sounds a bit alarming to me. (as he said in blog: Total Omniscience Awakening)

I disagree that he should prove it in a scientific way. It cannot be done, you can only prove it by asking yourself in silence. Personally when I do this I tend to verify the points made by other teachers such as Rupert Spira, Ramana Maharishi etc. So I listen to them instead... while Leo can be entertaining and giving me inspiration other times (Thanks!)
Let Leo do his thing and take what you want from it.

I agree completely that he should take on guests, or visit others. That would be awesome! (and healthy)

Edited June 25, 2019 by luckieluuke

[arlin]

To be honest, in the future i imagine leo more like connecting with other intelligent beings for the purpose of helping us all, and to reveal informations about all this work.

[bejapuskas]

@FrankTheTank  Consciously healing your body is not something superhuman, Wim Hof can do that and his students can also do that, without using any DPT. They have a scientific evidence of it  

[tenta]

Ofc not but you will be attacked by fanboys who cannot think for themselves and who will either strawman your argument or pretend something debunks it when it doesn't

Here is just food for thought, I haven't seen ANY proof of supernatural abilities at all so I don't believe it yet:

 

[Dimi]

@FrankTheTank

Like @Anton_Pierre said:

"Just because you can do something, does that make it genuine and sincere?"

This stays an subjective "thing" (for you and for me), not saying it is not important or anything, but again that is subjective for each and everyone of us unless you go "beyond" that where there is possibility to "objectiveness" but then it would be in experience, not in language.

I quote you:

"... So for that matters that would be at least a serious start in the right direction."

This again is an subjective statement, what you decide to be "real", "true", "serious" and all other dualities that can be used, are only relative to your experience, so, yeah, this all ends up to how you are willing to look at something

"I havend had the necessary experiences myself to make me very convinced one way or the other so SHOWING some good evidence would move my convictions a good deal in the "right" direction."

If you always want "something" besides a belief or feeling to convince yourself that something is a "right direction" than you will miss a whole lot of things in life my friend, I can assure you that, been there done that And here as well, why do you need to be conviced of anything? Is it because you believe the contrary of what you do want to believe IF more "evidence" is shown? Think about that, does that makes sense for you?

"And: do you really think only the things that you BELIEVE in do manifest in ones life? really? I am convinced the world is full of happenings that people did not believe in at all. Is it really your metaphysical believe that the causality in the universe is governed by (even if very serious) wishful thinking?"

I will answer that but, what does it changes for you in your experience if i say yes or no? Only information or content will fill your mind, nothing more or less

I would say not only but yes, this is sort of "the law of attraction" which makes lots of sense if you have certain experiences or try out yourself.

This is not wishful thinking, the word itself is of the same seriousness of the act, not much

If you truly truly commit yourself into surrendering and fully trusting this, you will see things happening which needs no convincing

At least try it, try it long enough and do some research about it, commit yourself to at least try it the best you can and see what it might give you.

Don't try it 2weeks and say "hey this is BS" (not saying you will but i have to say this :p). Like everything in life, you need the proper actions for the proper results to come.

"I find it hard to believe that people inner model of the world really works that way..."

That is the whole thing that makes it difficult for your ego/personality to surrender to it, "I find it hard to believe..."

Why? You should seriously thing about why you want to believe it in the first place? You want to believe but on your conditions (conditions meaning having certain proof in a certain way)? Aren't you better of not believing it, staying with your current beliefs? If not, than why hesitate about it?

It only takes willingness to do so, give it a shot

 

I want to make clear that in NO way i want to make it as i know better, or that i approve/disapprove anything at all, this is of no use to me.

My only purpose here is to try and make you think for yourself, to benefit yourself