Starting to struggle again.

[Paul92]

Hi everyone,

I've been off here for a while, but feel I had to come back. I know you guys have helped me in the past.

So I was in a really dark place as you know. However, I forced myself to get back to work. I've had a couple of months where I have just not been overthinking anything, not really caring, and just having some fun. And it's actually been really nice.

Only, the last week or so, I've had the same thoughts coming back and scaring me. I'm starting to feel like I did before... and I really don't want to go back there.

Over the last couple of months, I've spent a lot of time with close friends, and I feel I've grown even closer to them.

I started to feel like 'Paul' again, and saw my friends as individuals, like I always have done. The individuality of people is what makes my world... And I kept telling myself that, ultimately, if I wasn't supposed to have a sense of self or a thinking mind, then I wouldn't have one. Also, why create millions upon millions of Beings that believe themselves to be themselves, if they are not... it doesn't make much sense.

Don't you think that, as an animal, as a Being, that we have to think somehow? "You are not your thoughts...". Well, perhaps, but how else could a Being operate without the ability to think... and how does God think, if it is God creating the thoughts in this experience? God has to think somehow, right?

But it's the same thoughts...

'You don't exist'. 'People do not exist'. 'There are no individuals'. 'You are not in control of your body or experience'. 'You don't have free will'.

It really does bother me. I love everyone around me... I just want them to be 'them'. Their personalities, their thoughts and opinions, I want it to be theirs... not 'me'.

Maybe I am just really tired. Ive had a good couple of months, had some great times, took things less serious than ever.. but I can just feel myself slipping back into that darkness again.

 

[Inliytened1]

@Paul92 your ego is twisting non-duality into darkness.  In truth it is the Absolute.  It is love and it is perfection.  The Absolute has no opposites.  It is pure isness.  

You have made huge growth by understanding that duality is part of non-duality.  It is within it, and it is beautiful.

Now put it all together as One and see the beauty in non-duality.

[Nahm]

Great to hear you’re doing better! 

You don’t need to believe thoughts, nor be bothered by them. Make a choice to either do the work and self realize, or acknowledge thinking about it is simply not it, but rather, just thoughts. In either case you are free of mental burden. Simply stop pretending ‘they are me’. 

[Paul92]

@Inliytened1 I don't even know what people mean by 'ego' any longer. I'm not interested in being significant. Every single day I just try and accept what is. The only thing I care about is that people are real and are individuals. I want you to be you. With full autonomy within your experience. Free to enjoy your life and make your own decisions. THAT is what worries me and freaks me out.

My best friend has been going through some troubles recently and she's very scared (yes, my best friend is a she haha). And weve had a few times recently when we've been able to chat. I've told her that I am here for her unconditionally, and not to worry about anything. Whatever she needs, day or night, I'm here. She's bottling things up and suffering and I just want to help her, as she has me in the past.

But last night I got home and I was left wondering, is she even real? My best friend, who I love with all my heart (not in a romantic way, she's like my sister), might not even exist. It's heartbreaking.

@Nahm Well, the last couple of months I've basically not paid attention to any thoughts and just focused on my hobbies and having a good time. However, I do think if we weren't supposed to have a thinking mind, why do we? It might sound stupid, but I have been really carefree. Just over the last few days I have started to worry about how those closest to me might not exist.

Edited June 23, 2019 by Paul92

[Preetom]

@Paul92

Paul I think you are misunderstanding something here.

This nondual spirituality does not shame or blame you for having a sense of self or for having human thoughts. This is not a Christian thing. I am sorry if anyone gave you that impression about nonduality.

Nonduality says that you are not 'exclusively' Paul with that specifc body and personality. It says that there is in fact a deeper Truth of 'you' which can be directly discovered.

And when that truth about 'you' becomes so clear and vivid, then in comparison to that, 'Paul' automatically feels like a fiction. Now you might feel discouraged hearing that, but its not really about believing it or trying hard to convince oneself. This shift naturally happens on its own.

Wherever Reality/truth is, thats where our attention and orientation automatically aligns itself. Just like after waking up from a dream, we don't need to believe or convince ourself that the dream was imaginary and waking state is real. The sense of reality automatically adjusts itself.

Same thing goes with your identity shift from fiction to Reality.

In your particular case, I would suggest that you stop taking all this non duality talk seriously, take professional help if necessary. Then when you feel curious about truth again, start a systematic, logical study of non duality along with practices.

Truly speaking, if understand properly, this non duality message is the greatest news you can ever come across. But in your case, it seems so life negative because of half baked non duality theories and misinterpretations over it.

Take care.

Edited June 23, 2019 by Preetom

[Nahm]

@Paul92 Are you aware you are pursing the thoughts by conversing here about them? You are focusing on a perspective which your sensations are telling you is not True. The issue is your refusal to either let it go, or do the work. 

[Toby]

 

[Paul92]

@Nahm Yes I realise that, of course. But yes, exactly! My experience suggests to me that I am me, and you are you. And that's how I want to it be. 

But then enlightened Beings on here, like yourself, claim we don't exist, we have no free will etc. 

 

[nightrider1435]

@Paul92 Perhaps you should just take a break from spirituality and keep focusing on carefree living and your hobbies, like you said. Sometimes being to "woke" and seeing yourself as everything isn't a pleasant thing. It's ok to live in duality. 

[Nahm]

16 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@Nahm Yes I realise that, of course. But yes, exactly! My experience suggests to me that I am me, and you are you. And that's how I want to it be. 

But then enlightened Beings on here, like yourself, claim we don't exist, we have no free will etc. 

 

I am not enlightened, I don’t claim you don’t exist, I don’t claim you have no free will. 

If the stove is hot, simply stop touching it. 

If this forum is causing you grief, simply don’t use it. 

[Shaun]

Funnily enough, I was thinking about you today and wondering if you are okay. Good to see that you're back. I'm still not right myself either, this nonduality stuff has hit me really hard.

[Nahm]

@Shaun No it hasn’t! I’m no fortune teller, but commiserating on a thought is still not doing the work. Total opposite direction.

[Truth Addict]

@Paul92

What you believe becomes reality. It's just as simple as that.

Pick and choose your beliefs very carefully. Choose the ones that make you happy.

[Shaun]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Shaun No it hasn’t! I’m no fortune teller, but commiserating on a thought is still not doing the work. Total opposite direction.

That's the kind of response one would expect from a child or someone who totally lacks empathy and understanding.

[Nahm]

@Shaun That’s just an opinion, and I sincerely apologize if I offended you.  It seems like you and @Paul92 are blaming nonduality, or the forum, or some combination of them, for your suffering. That’s the very thing that you both stand to be liberated from, by letting your ideas about it go. 

[Mu_]

5 hours ago, Paul92 said:

Hi everyone,

I've been off here for a while, but feel I had to come back. I know you guys have helped me in the past.

So I was in a really dark place as you know. However, I forced myself to get back to work. I've had a couple of months where I have just not been overthinking anything, not really caring, and just having some fun. And it's actually been really nice.

Only, the last week or so, I've had the same thoughts coming back and scaring me. I'm starting to feel like I did before... and I really don't want to go back there.

Over the last couple of months, I've spent a lot of time with close friends, and I feel I've grown even closer to them.

I started to feel like 'Paul' again, and saw my friends as individuals, like I always have done. The individuality of people is what makes my world... And I kept telling myself that, ultimately, if I wasn't supposed to have a sense of self or a thinking mind, then I wouldn't have one. Also, why create millions upon millions of Beings that believe themselves to be themselves, if they are not... it doesn't make much sense.

Don't you think that, as an animal, as a Being, that we have to think somehow? "You are not your thoughts...". Well, perhaps, but how else could a Being operate without the ability to think... and how does God think, if it is God creating the thoughts in this experience? God has to think somehow, right?

But it's the same thoughts...

'You don't exist'. 'People do not exist'. 'There are no individuals'. 'You are not in control of your body or experience'. 'You don't have free will'.

It really does bother me. I love everyone around me... I just want them to be 'them'. Their personalities, their thoughts and opinions, I want it to be theirs... not 'me'.

Maybe I am just really tired. Ive had a good couple of months, had some great times, took things less serious than ever.. but I can just feel myself slipping back into that darkness again.

 

Glad to hear you’ve been doing good. It’s natural that we we fall back into old habits. Just remember what you learned and helped you. Preetom shared some useful wisdom for you as did Nahm which was inline with what I was saying before.   

Time away may be best for you. And again your the one believing that your not real and others are not real (even if some people are saying it on this forum). I’d give it a rest and enjoy being you and enjoy your individual friends and their uniqueness.  Who cares what others think. Some people believe your going to go to hell if you have sex before marriage or minorities are inferior. Are you going to let this bother you to and believe it’s true as well simply because others have these beliefs?

Edited June 23, 2019 by Mu_

[Conrad]

3 hours ago, Paul92 said:

Hi everyone,

I've been off here for a while, but feel I had to come back. I know you guys have helped me in the past.

So I was in a really dark place as you know. However, I forced myself to get back to work. I've had a couple of months where I have just not been overthinking anything, not really caring, and just having some fun. And it's actually been really nice.

Only, the last week or so, I've had the same thoughts coming back and scaring me. I'm starting to feel like I did before... and I really don't want to go back there.

Over the last couple of months, I've spent a lot of time with close friends, and I feel I've grown even closer to them.

I started to feel like 'Paul' again, and saw my friends as individuals, like I always have done. The individuality of people is what makes my world... And I kept telling myself that, ultimately, if I wasn't supposed to have a sense of self or a thinking mind, then I wouldn't have one. Also, why create millions upon millions of Beings that believe themselves to be themselves, if they are not... it doesn't make much sense.

Don't you think that, as an animal, as a Being, that we have to think somehow? "You are not your thoughts...". Well, perhaps, but how else could a Being operate without the ability to think... and how does God think, if it is God creating the thoughts in this experience? God has to think somehow, right?

But it's the same thoughts...

'You don't exist'. 'People do not exist'. 'There are no individuals'. 'You are not in control of your body or experience'. 'You don't have free will'.

It really does bother me. I love everyone around me... I just want them to be 'them'. Their personalities, their thoughts and opinions, I want it to be theirs... not 'me'.

Maybe I am just really tired. Ive had a good couple of months, had some great times, took things less serious than ever.. but I can just feel myself slipping back into that darkness again.

 

The thoughts are true but the deciever ego has twisted it. Become conscious that only God exists and all problems will cease to exist. You really has to become conscious of it, literally conscious of it. The belief in individualty is a complete illusion. There is only One, God. This is liberation. 

[Richard Alpert]

Hi Paul, dont worry, you are doing great. Spirituality is made for to confuse people and tell stories.              THIS IS IT, no it cant be, lets make up some stories.. Lol, fucking humans   You don't need to buy into any nondual or buddhist philosophy or non-thinking culture. Thinking is great, you would be a vegetable without it. Look at the obviousness of your life, write on paper for example where you live, work, what you do etc if you are confused.. i know i could say there is no paul or richard but on a relative level there is and always will be. And there are no enlightened being and non enlightened beings, enlightenment is not personal

Edited June 23, 2019 by Richard Alpert

[Shaun]

18 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Shaun That’s just an opinion, and I sincerely apologize if I offended you.  It seems like you and @Paul92 are blaming nonduality, or the forum, or some combination of them, for your suffering. That’s the very thing that you both stand to be liberated from, by letting your ideas about it go. 

You haven't, no worries. It's just all the contradictory stuff we hear leads us deep into confusion and fear. I woke up this morning in great fear again, with a sore head and I was so present and conscious that it actually hurt. I was rejecting my entire past as false also because it is just thought and isn't true.

[Nahm]

@Shaun I appreciate you and what you’re saying. I think the suffering ends though when we take responsibility for the interpretation. People will always be saying some crazy stuff, myself included.  If one try’s to find some truth by sorting through what others are saying, the carousel of confusion & stress just keeps going.  I know you’re ‘doin the work’ though, and I have faith in you.  

As far as ‘being led into confusion & fear’, I can only speak for myself, that if I’m leading anyone to anything, it’s to no longer being led. Thanks for calling me out btw. There is always deeper compassion to discover. ??